JF 27 Amherst 26 4thq

[DinwiddieProud]

So what EXACTLY were they saying? JF definitely shifts their D line and stunts LB's which is perfectly legal and they do give verbal signals, all perfectly legal. For the refs not to call it once on them even after the coaches told them about it, it's highly unlikely anything done was against the rules. The refs are right there, they can hear everything.

With that said, it was 100% Amherst being undisciplined. Even if JF was doing something to cause them to go, you would think after maybe the first time or two they would learn their lesson. I guarantee if you watch the tape you could find at least a dozen more times Amherst jumped with no flag, including the missed extra point attempt in OT.

Coach Christmas will do anything to win. He will use every advantage he can and take advantage of every weakness, but I've never seen him do anything close to illegal or unethical.

Dinwiddie shifts their defensive down linemen often, too. It's usually good for one or two penalties a game against the offensive line for movement. But, it's still hard to understand how Amherst could jump that many times. BTW, how long did it take to complete the game in regulation?

 

[anon_vu6vqwsr4nf3b]

Something was darn sure going on. I would love to see that game on film.

Amherst posts every game on The Cube, and the JF game is up. It used to be free, but they charge this year. http://achs.amherst.k12.va.us/thecube

 

[wikki]

So what EXACTLY were they saying? JF definitely shifts their D line and stunts LB's which is perfectly legal and they do give verbal signals, all perfectly legal. For the refs not to call it once on them even after the coaches told them about it, it's highly unlikely anything done was against the rules. The refs are right there, they can hear everything.

With that said, it was 100% Amherst being undisciplined. Even if JF was doing something to cause them to go, you would think after maybe the first time or two they would learn their lesson. I guarantee if you watch the tape you could find at least a dozen more times Amherst jumped with no flag, including the missed extra point attempt in OT.

Coach Christmas will do anything to win. He will use every advantage he can and take advantage of every weakness, but I've never seen him do anything close to illegal or unethical.

Believe what you want it was not 100% Amherst. 150 yards in penalties? What I said surely happened, it did!! Sometimes you think someone is perfect. To be honest this is not the first time questions came up about him. Is he a good coach and his players respect him, yes but not everyone does and I'm not saying me

 

[jbci04]

Believe what you want it was not 100% Amherst. 150 yards in penalties? What I said surely happened, it did!! Sometimes you think someone is perfect. To be honest this is not the first time questions came up about him. Is he a good coach and his players respect him, yes but not everyone does and I'm not saying me

Again I ask, what EXACTLY were they saying?

 

[wikki]

Amherst posts every game on The Cube, and the JF game is up. It used to be free, but they charge this year. http://achs.amherst.k12.va.us/thecube

Watch it or not still can't hear what was going on the field, even the announcers wasn't sure until after the game. No one can hear from the field. I just texted a former referee and he said the following because I have no clue this ever existed

defense cannot attempt to simulate offense cadence, or move hands in motion that is deemed a distraction to the offense. most of the time its pretty obvious, but it can get very subjective.

 

[jbci04]

Watch it or not still can't hear what ea going on the field, even the announcers wasn't sure until after the game. No one can hear from the field. I just texted a former referee and he said yes,

defense cannot attempt to simulate offense cadence, or move hands in motion that is deemed a distraction to the offense. most of the time its pretty obvious, but it can get very subjective.

Surely 1 of the officials on the field would have saw something. I've reviewed the film a few times, didn't hear or see anything and I was looking for it. Many times the defense didn't even shift or move.

 

[wikki]

Surely 1 of the officials on the field would have saw something. I've reviewed the film a few times, didn't hear or see anything and I was looking for it. Many times the defense didn't even shift or move.

Whatever! you would not admit it anyway. In all my years of posting I've never put anything on here even close to this on here and wouldn't unless it did. DONE

 

[jbci04]

Whatever! you would not admit it anyway. In all my years of posting I've never put anything on here even close to this on here and wouldn't unless it did. DONE

EXACTLY what were they saying??? EXACTLY what did YOU hear?

 

[Gunz41]

From what I am reading from @wikki, I believe what she is referring to is the defense imitating the cadence, thus drawing them to false start. That is illegal, and it would be hard to tell in the stands and through video. I dont know if it's true or not, and since my school is a 2a team, I obviously have no dog in the hunt.

One thing I will say, is that IF it did happen, certainly wouldn't mean the coach was coaching them or telling them to do it. These are kids, they can do things they shouldn't on their own.

And reading your examples @DinwiddieProud, the one with the illegal formation being called 3 times in a row before a consultation with official, I dont know the situation, but you said since it didn't happen again the official was calling something wrong, just from what you wrote, isn't it possible the official explained to the coach why it was being called and the coach fixed it so it wouldn't happen again? Like I said, I wasn't there and didn't see it, but that would be my guess

 

[rainman17]

Defense is allowed to yell shift, move, etc on the defensive front. This is allowed at all levels and generally the shift comes when a team is in a bear front to get the team to come to false start or create an advantage for the defense by confusion

 

[wikki]

From what I am reading from @wikki, I believe what she is referring to is the defense imitating the cadence, thus drawing them to false start. That is illegal, and it would be hard to tell in the stands and through video. I dont know if it's true or not, and since my school is a 2a team, I obviously have no dog in the hunt.

One thing I will say, is that IF it did happen, certainly wouldn't mean the coach was coaching them or telling them to do it. These are kids, they can do things they shouldn't on their own.

And reading your examples @DinwiddieProud, the one with the illegal formation being called 3 times in a row before a consultation with official, I dont know the situation, but you said since it didn't happen again the official was calling something wrong, just from what you wrote, isn't it possible the official explained to the coach why it was being called and the coach fixed it so it wouldn't happen again? Like I said, I wasn't there and didn't see it, but that would be my guess

Thank you Gunz that is exactly what was happening and it did many times. People believe that their coach had a hand in it, that I cannot prove though but I find it hard to believe that the players did that on their own as well. That was why people said that Amherst had no discipline they were so frustrated and Phillips was on the field more than I have ever seen him. I just know he was not happy with it

 

[wikki]

Thank you Gunz that is exactly what was happening and it did many times. People believe that their coach had a hand in it, that I cannot prove though but I find it hard to believe that the players did that on their own as well. That was why people said that Amherst had no discipline they were so frustrated and Phillips was on the field more than I have ever seen him. I just know he was not happy with it

The person that shared with me said it was illegal. All I can say is Karma baby

 

[Gunz41]

The person that shared with me said it was illegal. All I can say is Karma baby

Imitating a cadence is illegal (a penalty). Not something that will get someone kicked out, but against the rules. It isn't called much, as a player can be talking (even right to an opponent), the penalty is imitating the cadence ex. HUT HUT HUT.

 

[jfcav1]

So what EXACTLY were they saying? JF definitely shifts their D line and stunts LB's which is perfectly legal and they do give verbal signals, all perfectly legal. For the refs not to call it once on them even after the coaches told them about it, it's highly unlikely anything done was against the rules. The refs are right there, they can hear everything.

With that said, it was 100% Amherst being undisciplined. Even if JF was doing something to cause them to go, you would think after maybe the first time or two they would learn their lesson. I guarantee if you watch the tape you could find at least a dozen more times Amherst jumped with no flag, including the missed extra point attempt in OT.

Coach Christmas will do anything to win. He will use every advantage he can and take advantage of every weakness, but I've never seen him do anything close to illegal or unethical.

Retweet^

 

[jbci04]

Thank you Gunz that is exactly what was happening and it did many times. People believe that their coach had a hand in it, that I cannot prove though but I find it hard to believe that the players did that on their own as well. That was why people said that Amherst had no discipline they were so frustrated and Phillips was on the field more than I have ever seen him. I just know he was not happy with it

So you cannot provide EXACTLY what they were doing or saying? Everything is heresy... Just accusations on what was probably the most undisciplined display of offensive line play I have ever seen. This JF treachery must be insanely good...

 

[wikki]

In

So you cannot provide EXACTLY what they were doing or saying? Everything is heresy... Just accusations on what was probably the most undisciplined display of offensive line play I have ever seen. This JF treachery must be insanely good...

I can't but others can and it happened. Karma

 

[jbci04]

In

I can't but others can and it happened. Karma

So, find out from them EXACTLY what they were doing....

 

[DinwiddieProud]

From what I am reading from @wikki, I believe what she is referring to is the defense imitating the cadence, thus drawing them to false start. That is illegal, and it would be hard to tell in the stands and through video. I dont know if it's true or not, and since my school is a 2a team, I obviously have no dog in the hunt.

One thing I will say, is that IF it did happen, certainly wouldn't mean the coach was coaching them or telling them to do it. These are kids, they can do things they shouldn't on their own.

And reading your examples @DinwiddieProud, the one with the illegal formation being called 3 times in a row before a consultation with official, I dont know the situation, but you said since it didn't happen again the official was calling something wrong, just from what you wrote, isn't it possible the official explained to the coach why it was being called and the coach fixed it so it wouldn't happen again? Like I said, I wasn't there and didn't see it, but that would be my guess

Possible Gunz, but this was mid season, same formation used before and after the calls, and before and after this game. There could have been some subtleties, some small adjustment, but I really don't think so.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Let me tell you where I stand on what Wikki says, SHE SAID IT, I BELIEVE HER, END OF DISCUSSION.

Absolutely no one is more trusted and respected on Virginia Preps, NO ONE!

I hear ya jbci04, and I'm usually the same way you are. But not this time, not with Wikki.

 

[Gunz41]

Possible Gunz, but this was mid season, same formation used before and after the calls, and before and after this game. There could have been some subtleties, some small adjustment, but I really don't think so.

I dont know, I certainly believe you and respect your opinion, I just have the image in my mind being at football games and people in the stands (Not referring to you or think it would be you) complaining about flags when it is obvious they should be, coach fixes it, and then they complain about something else lol

 

[jbci04]

Let me tell you where I stand on what Wikki says, SHE SAID IT, I BELIEVE HER, END OF DISCUSSION.

Absolutely no one is more trusted and respected on Virginia Preps, NO ONE!

I hear ya jbci04, and I'm usually the same way you are. But not this time, not with Wikki.

I agree. Thing is she did not witness or hear it. She's hearing rumor from someone else.

If it was truly happening, surely a ref would have caught on to it, especially after supposably being alerted by the coach.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I dont know, I certainly believe you and respect your opinion, I just have the image in my mind being at football games and people in the stands (Not referring to you or think it would be you) complaining about flags when it is obvious they should be, coach fixes it, and then they complain about something else lol

I agree with you. If nothing else over the years, I've learned to trust and respect the officials. Just about every time I thought something had been called wrong, or managed wrong, I was the one that was wrong. White Hat and the others over on the "ask the officials" forum have taught me a ton.

 

[wikki]

I agree. Thing is she did not witness or hear it. She's hearing rumor from someone else.

I said I didn't witness it because I had never heard of it before but the two people that told me, know what they are talking about. I said something seemed off and I had no idea until the person(s) very knowledgable told me what it was. Not sure why or if adjustments were made but it sure was mentioned to the refs that I witnessed and had no idea what the discussion was. I saw the frustration with the players amongst themselves also, which has never happened like that. I knew something wasn't right so that is why I asked what is was. Coaches are not happy about it, that I also know

 

[jfcav1]

Let me tell you where I stand on what Wikki says, SHE SAID IT, I BELIEVE HER, END OF DISCUSSION.

Absolutely no one is more trusted and respected on Virginia Preps, NO ONE!

I hear ya jbci04, and I'm usually the same way you are. But not this time, not with Wikki.

Gotta disagree, considering wikki still hasn’t grasped the concept of subject verb agreement

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I agree. Thing is she did not witness or hear it. She's hearing rumor from someone else.

If it was truly happening, surely a ref would have caught on to it, especially after supposably being alerted by the coach.

I agree, except that I trust that Wikki has a source that she knows to be reliable, and believes them without question. Wikki almost never has anything the least bit controversial to say. So for her to take the stance she has, I just have to believe she is personally convinced that something nefarious took place. If she is wrong, it's because her source was convinced they were correct.

Bottom line, let's all disagree, and forget it. We can't un-ring that bell anyway.

 

[Gunz41]

@wikki we believe you. No reason after all these years to not believe you. One that doesn't and doesn't think you know anything didn't even know you were a her. Gotta disregard them there. To talk bad or question their knowledge, you should at least know their gender.

But we know we can't ask you about Routes lol

 

[DinwiddieProud]

@wikki we believe you. No reason after all these years to not believe you. One that doesn't and doesn't think you know anything didn't even know you were a her. Gotta disregard them there. To talk bad or question their knowledge, you should at least know their gender.

But we know we can't ask you about Routes lol

Just had to do it didn't you Cam..., I mean Gunz! LOL!

 

[Gunz41]

Just had to do it didn't you Cam..., I mean Gunz! LOL!

I dont even know who you are. But would you like some yogurt?

 

[wikki]

@wikki we believe you. No reason after all these years to not believe you. One that doesn't and doesn't think you know anything didn't even know you were a her. Gotta disregard them there. To talk bad or question their knowledge, you should at least know their gender.

But we know we can't ask you about Routes lol

Gunz I would not be offended that is for sure. People are usually surprised I know as much as I do. I have a friend who is a guy that calls me every Monday to talk about Lancer football. I can't wait to ask him about Friday night.

 

[jbci04]

Was JF doing anything to cause all of the holds and unsportsmanlike penalties too?

Those dirty tricksters...

 

[btowenatc]

... No player may call defensive signals that simulate the sound or cadence of (or otherwise interfere with) offensive starting signals ... "
This happened many times and it caused much confusion, several of the false starts. Several times our players were waving their hands so they could hear. It was brought to the refs attention. Several times it was clear that they couldn't tell what they were doing and that caused many false starts. Me and several fans said something didn't look right and then two people on the sideline told me today and it all makes sense. JF won and deserved it no doubt. They have a good team and they stopped Ross better than any other team. I am going to the Glass and JF game to check it out

They tried to do that against GW and the refs caught on to it and penalized JF.

 

[MrSir#5]

Man I don't post alot on here cause I get alot of negative comments on here from some people about Amherst football in the last 8 years. I don't agree with the way the new Amherst is being ran but that is besides the point. Y'all two JF punks need to get off of Wikki's back like yesterday. She has been a loyal poster, putting knowledgeable things on her since I was on the field. Lay off of it. JF won. Good job. Amherst got outplayed out coached, what ever what's new. Leave Wiki alone.

 

[rainman17]

If JF was yelling out the snap count then they would’ve been penalized there’s no way the team or referees would’ve compromised the entire game, I find it difficult to believe that this is what the talk of the game is Amherst scored 40 points obviously the false starts didn’t limit them but so much, similarly JF defense is on the field but they don’t get many stops so I don’t believe the rhetoric that they are yelling out set hutt instead of shift and move.

 

[wikki]

Was JF doing anything to cause all of the holds and unsportsmanlike penalties too?

Those dirty tricksters...

No and I don't think I said that either. Apparently they did it against GW as well., not good

 

[MrJHamm]

The false starts were ridiculous. That needs to get fixed

How long have Amherst folks been saying this? "Too many penalties!" "Too many fumbles!" "Amherst is undisciplined!" "We got to fix this!"

It is a broken record from y'all every year. Such wasted talent since Abel left.

 

[jfcav1]

Man I don't post alot on here cause I get alot of negative comments on here from some people about Amherst football in the last 8 years. I don't agree with the way the new Amherst is being ran but that is besides the point. Y'all two JF punks need to get off of Wikki's back like yesterday. She has been a loyal poster, putting knowledgeable things on her since I was on the field. Lay off of it. JF won. Good job. Amherst got outplayed out coached, what ever what's new. Leave Wiki alone.

She can post an opinion but we can’t? Hm

 

[jbci04]

No and I don't think I said that either. Apparently they did it against GW as well., not good

No, the penalty at GW was because a lineman made a "forward motion" with his arms, never crossing into the neutral zone but enough to make the ref throw a flag. (GW was jumping and complained prior to the call to the officials) JF even burned a timeout discussing the call with the official. No verbal signals other than "shift" was used. They continued to shift for the rest of the game without a flag.

 

[wikki]

How long have Amherst folks been saying this? "Too many penalties!" "Too many fumbles!" "Amherst is undisciplined!" "We got to fix this!"

It is a broken record from y'all every year. Such wasted talent since Abel left.

How long? on occasions not all the time. I said it before but Friday night was a different story and that should not allowed to happen with JF.

 

[Lancer For Life]

As someone who has played against JF teams recently, I do not recall them ever imitating snap counts. There are teams who will call out Amherst's shifts and motions because the offense is rather complex at times, but not the snap counts. I was able to come down for the game after a quick walkthrough practice on Friday, and I kept telling my friends sitting around me in the stands that there was something off. Amherst was consistently moving the football albeit through okay execution and poor discipline. It seemed like on most of the false starts that the snap was behind the movement of everyone else. It was a decent crowd so maybe it was a series of miscommunications between Quarterback and Center. My bigger problem with Amherst was the poor kickoff coverage which led to JF starting deep in Amherst territory and also missed assignments on long touchdown runs where the JF backs would not even get touched. From a talent standpoint I would say Amherst was the stronger team, but from an execution and discipline standpoint JF was the better team on this night. I am not saying that nothing of the sort happened with regards to the snap imitation calls, but in my experience in the last 3 years playing Coach Christmas coached teams I did not experience this. Amherst needs to fix their discipline if they plan on sneaking into the playoffs. They need to take care of business against LCA and Liberty, but poor discipline against Glass and Heritage will not lead to wins.

 

[MrJHamm]

How long? on occasions not all the time. I said it before but Friday night was a different story and that should not allowed to happen with JF.

How long? Essentially since Abel left. Not saying it was ONLY you, but that has been coming out of Amherst for quite some time.