Not even almost what I said and you know that. But all this clarifying is exhausting so kudos and goodnight.
JF Head Coach
- Thread starter lyhsports
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Not even almost what I said and you know that. But all this clarifying is exhausting so kudos and goodnight.
Ecg and heritage won because they were the more disciplined, had a better game plan, and were the all around better coached team vs JF. Not because they were “faster.” Code word as it is. Ludacris. Big facts big facts big facts
That's literally what you've been doing about Navy Jones this whole thread. Wow I'm just gunna leave you to yourself.
You and @Hilltoperhokie have a super promising career as Fox News hosts. Just hurl wild accusations at the wall and hope it sticks - When it doesn't or someone has made a valid point, just ignore and move on to the next absurdity all while trying to hide your massive bias. But you should write "big facts" one more time, I'm sure that will somehow morph your argument into some sort of cogent response.
No one else on this board has an axe to grind like ya'll do and no one else on this board devolves into the blatant disregard for reasonable and linear discourse the way you two do. It's exhausting.
I feel sorry for you. Your lost in your own office. this convo has very little to do with navy jones. Its about checking your uppity mindset. But as we all know, you Can’t fix stupid. I hope you all in Bedford can “make JF great again”
Haha the stupid thing is you probably only understood 50% of the vocabulary on that post. “Big facts”
I agree. When Heritage or Glass plays JF, the more disciplined team with a better game plan who are being coached better wins the game.
Christmas is 2-4 against Glass. Glass has had JF's number without a doubt.
Christmas is 3-2 against Heritage. So based on your reasoning here, the majority of the time JF and Heritage have played, Christmas' team was more disciplined, with a better game plan, and just better coached all around and came out with the W.
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Considering most of Navy's best runs were through the middle of the line, I think he had a lot of great linemen to thank as well. Add in threats of QB, FB, HB and WR and the defenses had a lot to think about...
Again, not taking anything away from Navy but he had a ton of help. Those teams were very special.
Is this a racial implication? I’m just assuming as we aren’t supposed to play dumb...so the schools with more African american students are more likely to have more athletes in terms of speed and athleticism? Got it!
Talent pool at JF isn’t depleted nor dry but JF as a school has never produced speed demons check their track program not football (if we are talking speed and athletes)...and ironically most of those speedy times aren’t by A.A. students. Another example To dispel the racial athlete argument is Cole beck from Blacksburg...I’m sure the racial makeup of Blacksburg and JF are close in terms of numbers but that doesn’t explain why Bburg was the more athletic or just as athletic of a team as anyone they lined up with. Ask E.C. Glass players coaches and fans if the kids from bburg are the truth in terms of being an athlete. It’s as simple as the guy said at JF the facilities aren’t what made them special, navy jones did during his tenure in a brand new scheme under Christmas but as time goes on people figure out how to defend...and if you don’t have that one exemplary athlete it wouldn’t make sense.
Let’s now dispel the argument about HERITAGE why did LA LA lose in the state championship but they won this year without him? Same coach just didn’t rely on one player for 97% of the offense like he did a year ago it makes you one dimensional. Ask SRHS about it, they made it but lost to that bburg team I was talking about and played that heritage team too with la la.
Kendrick is a phenomenal athlete as well but I wouldn’t exactly say he’s on that same level yet, a game changer certainly but can he shoulder the team on his back to ascend up another level.
In terms of navy jones....he was the best thing to happen during the second Christmas era, his dad was a great back in that offense too which led to the transfer. Jones was electrifying but if you tackle and pursued well you were likely to contain him as I saw happen the 2 years they were bounced out the playoffs that’s all she wrote. Forest lost at home to Salem I’m unconvincing fashion.
Is this a racial implication? I’m just assuming as we aren’t supposed to play dumb...so the schools with more African american students are more likely to have more athletes in terms of speed and athleticism? Got it!
*Wrong. Different areas and programs maintain stronger pools of athletes than others. That is ALL that I said. In terms of quality and quantity of athletes in high school football, South Georgia is not like North Georgia, Utah is not like Florida. Staunton River is not like Blacksburg, GW Danville is not like Rustburg. Different schools and areas have different amounts of athletes. That is all that was said. People have said plenty of times on here that a head coach is going to want to coach athletes, and all that was said is that there are plenty of other schools that have more athletes roaming the halls than JF does. (sidenote,
Talent pool at JF isn’t depleted nor dry but JF as a school has never produced speed demons check their track program not football (if we are talking speed and athletes)...and ironically most of those speedy times aren’t by A.A. students. Another example To dispel the racial athlete argument is Cole beck from Blacksburg...I’m sure the racial makeup of Blacksburg and JF are close in terms of numbers but that doesn’t explain why Bburg was the more athletic or just as athletic of a team as anyone they lined up with. Ask E.C. Glass players coaches and fans if the kids from bburg are the truth in terms of being an athlete. It’s as simple as the guy said at JF the facilities aren’t what made them special, navy jones did during his tenure in a brand new scheme under Christmas but as time goes on people figure out how to defend...and if you don’t have that one exemplary athlete it wouldn’t make sense.
*Again, no one said anything about more African American players = more talent. What was said is that there are other schools with more athletes roaming the halls than JF, and that would play into a coach's decision to coach there.
*The offense has continued on fine without Navy Jones. It's been the defense that has sunk JF. (Put up close to 600 yards on state champ Heritage this year).
Let’s now dispel the argument about HERITAGE why did LA LA lose in the state championship but they won this year without him? Same coach just didn’t rely on one player for 97% of the offense like he did a year ago it makes you one dimensional. Ask SRHS about it, they made it but lost to that bburg team I was talking about and played that heritage team too with la la.
Kendrick is a phenomenal athlete as well but I wouldn’t exactly say he’s on that same level yet, a game changer certainly but can he shoulder the team on his back to ascend up another level.
*I think Dresean is on level but that's just my opinion. And that's a good point about LaLa.
In terms of navy jones....he was the best thing to happen during the second Christmas era, his dad was a great back in that offense too which led to the transfer. Jones was electrifying but if you tackle and pursued well you were likely to contain him as I saw happen the 2 years they were bounced out the playoffs that’s all she wrote. Forest lost at home to Salem I’m unconvincing fashion.
*Agreed. Jones was great but I personally don't think he is what people on here were making him out to be. The same offense had another 1,000 yard+ rusher two seasons in a row, with a third back rushing for 700.
I don’t think anyone is thinking rice won more than Christmas in their tenures. Rice coached for approx 10 years , and had 3 playoff appearances, two resulting in a region title births but no chips. JF didn’t return to the playoffs until the 2008-2009 season since 97/98. Many of those years were not in the new system, which is where Christmas is and apart of now. However the record for Christmas was better once navy arrived 13-1 immediate and a region champ birth. The baseline is simple Christmas wins more games per season, his best seasons trump rices best seasons. Rice had some loaded rosters, but didn’t quite live up to the hype in terms of results. Christmas was loved because of his history at JF, and when he came back he picked up where he left off, which is why the support was immense for him.
Facilities don’t make teams win games, if you’ve ever seen Tx HSFB a lot of stadiums are huge, weight rooms phenomenal and fan support is immense for losing programs. The additions and renovations make it look better and allow for more specialty work But unless the kids are doing above and beyond it’s the same as what the basic weight room can do, the turf field means you can practice all weather but doesn’t mean your players are better. However in the world of college football facilities attract a coach and more but in hs you not “recruiting” so where the money is doesn’t provide better talent or talent pools it just shows the tax dollars or donations flowing in.
Facilities don’t make teams win games, if you’ve ever seen Tx HSFB a lot of stadiums are huge, weight rooms phenomenal and fan support is immense for losing programs. The additions and renovations make it look better and allow for more specialty work But unless the kids are doing above and beyond it’s the same as what the basic weight room can do, the turf field means you can practice all weather but doesn’t mean your players are better. However in the world of college football facilities attract a coach and more but in hs you not “recruiting” so where the money is doesn’t provide better talent or talent pools it just shows the tax dollars or donations flowing in.
*Wrong. Different areas and programs maintain stronger pools of athletes than others. That is ALL that I said. In terms of quality and quantity of athletes in high school football, South Georgia is not like North Georgia, Utah is not like Florida. Staunton River is not like Blacksburg, GW Danville is not like Rustburg. Different schools and areas have different amounts of athletes. That is all that was said. People have said plenty of times on here that a head coach is going to want to coach athletes, and all that was said is that there are plenty of other schools that have more athletes roaming the halls than JF does. (sidenote,
— — location matters but again check the racial dynamics of the location...the suburbs generally in central va aren’t diverse grounds, so yes I’m reading in between the lines, and in all these examples minus SRHS and bburg there’s a stern and stark racial disparity between Utah and Florida, Danville and Rustburg, southern vs northern GA, maintaining a stronger pool could also be due to the socioeconomic factors keeping some people trapped some places, but there’s a lot more that goes into this athleticism debate than just location, systematically housing in the US wasn’t fairly distributed, still isn’t today, you ever heard of redlining? I don’t agree with the premise that black or AA makes the better athlete BC of (insert whatever)...but I do know why the argument is that JF quality of athletes isn’t the same and it’s not because of the quantity and quality of the school...it’s a larger 4A and in an affluent as well as desirable area, but not everybody can afford to live there same as other locales. There’s so much that goes into what an area looks like that you forget what people are ostracized or excluded to get it to be that way, again the biggest quote in America if you want the truth is FOLLOW THE MONEY.
*Again, no one said anything about more African American players = more talent. What was said is that there are other schools with more athletes roaming the halls than JF, and that would play into a coach's decision to coach there.
—— the argument is why no coach with head coaching experience is applying for the job at JF, they arguably have the top player returning in Keenan cupit and 2 years ago had a player similar in terms of game changer ability in jones...so you get talent but like somebody outlined you don’t get the depth of plug in play, when the big lineman for forest goes down they have somebody who could fill in, when the one speed demon goes down, there goes majority of the team speed, but football speed and track speed are different from baseball, b-ball, and etc speed/quickness. Forest has quick ones but not that many speedy ones. Which is where the argument about quantity/quality comes in, you got an equal amount of bodies to pull from but what’s separating these talent levels?
*The offense has continued on fine without Navy Jones. It's been the defense that has sunk JF. (Put up close to 600 yards on state champ Heritage this year).
— — 600 yards in a loss, cause they can’t stop anybody, defense hadn’t been played since christmas came back and in the games that mattered most it’s what hurt them the most, the motto is if we score we might win if they don’t score we will win so the offense produces but why has no rb done what jones has done in there since? And remember jones left an altavista team with UVA’s Juan thornhill to come to JF, so he missed out on some rings and looks.
*I think Dresean is on level but that's just my opinion. And that's a good point about LaLa.
—— I’ve seen Kendrick and he’s explosive but I just need to see that next step...I saw him grow the past two seasons I want to see him as a senior...the other samples I’ve seen a complete work
*Agreed. Jones was great but I personally don't think he is what people on here were making him out to be. The same offense had another 1,000 yard+ rusher two seasons in a row, with a third back rushing for 700.
—— I don’t see another player going for 2k like jones did in this offense at JF. There’s been great rbS in JF and statistically navy is the best, so did they benefit from navy or did he benefit more from them is an opinion driven statement, but I’d think the secondary pieces benefit more from the primary one. Let’s look at Amherst in 2007-2008. Josh Braxton was the rb who was first team all district, but he benefited BC teams were dropping and trying to stop peter rose at all costs which left the rest wide open. If you playing qb instead of pitch in the option the rb has running room and Braxton could fly but nobody thought he was the xfactor. I can give more examples if need be as well but it’s opinion driven...success is determined by results. Another example at JF 2008-2009 Desmond Goode ran for nearly 1700 that season and the back up Rashad Hall ran for 800 both were good backs but without Goode JF doesn’t make it where they did this season. He single handedly took over games, and the one game he didn’t play JF won 20-14 over a terrible Rustburg team.
— — location matters but again check the racial dynamics of the location...the suburbs generally in central va aren’t diverse grounds, so yes I’m reading in between the lines, and in all these examples minus SRHS and bburg there’s a stern and stark racial disparity between Utah and Florida, Danville and Rustburg, southern vs northern GA, maintaining a stronger pool could also be due to the socioeconomic factors keeping some people trapped some places, but there’s a lot more that goes into this athleticism debate than just location, systematically housing in the US wasn’t fairly distributed, still isn’t today, you ever heard of redlining? I don’t agree with the premise that black or AA makes the better athlete BC of (insert whatever)...but I do know why the argument is that JF quality of athletes isn’t the same and it’s not because of the quantity and quality of the school...it’s a larger 4A and in an affluent as well as desirable area, but not everybody can afford to live there same as other locales. There’s so much that goes into what an area looks like that you forget what people are ostracized or excluded to get it to be that way, again the biggest quote in America if you want the truth is FOLLOW THE MONEY.
*Again, no one said anything about more African American players = more talent. What was said is that there are other schools with more athletes roaming the halls than JF, and that would play into a coach's decision to coach there.
—— the argument is why no coach with head coaching experience is applying for the job at JF, they arguably have the top player returning in Keenan cupit and 2 years ago had a player similar in terms of game changer ability in jones...so you get talent but like somebody outlined you don’t get the depth of plug in play, when the big lineman for forest goes down they have somebody who could fill in, when the one speed demon goes down, there goes majority of the team speed, but football speed and track speed are different from baseball, b-ball, and etc speed/quickness. Forest has quick ones but not that many speedy ones. Which is where the argument about quantity/quality comes in, you got an equal amount of bodies to pull from but what’s separating these talent levels?
*The offense has continued on fine without Navy Jones. It's been the defense that has sunk JF. (Put up close to 600 yards on state champ Heritage this year).
— — 600 yards in a loss, cause they can’t stop anybody, defense hadn’t been played since christmas came back and in the games that mattered most it’s what hurt them the most, the motto is if we score we might win if they don’t score we will win so the offense produces but why has no rb done what jones has done in there since? And remember jones left an altavista team with UVA’s Juan thornhill to come to JF, so he missed out on some rings and looks.
*I think Dresean is on level but that's just my opinion. And that's a good point about LaLa.
—— I’ve seen Kendrick and he’s explosive but I just need to see that next step...I saw him grow the past two seasons I want to see him as a senior...the other samples I’ve seen a complete work
*Agreed. Jones was great but I personally don't think he is what people on here were making him out to be. The same offense had another 1,000 yard+ rusher two seasons in a row, with a third back rushing for 700.
—— I don’t see another player going for 2k like jones did in this offense at JF. There’s been great rbS in JF and statistically navy is the best, so did they benefit from navy or did he benefit more from them is an opinion driven statement, but I’d think the secondary pieces benefit more from the primary one. Let’s look at Amherst in 2007-2008. Josh Braxton was the rb who was first team all district, but he benefited BC teams were dropping and trying to stop peter rose at all costs which left the rest wide open. If you playing qb instead of pitch in the option the rb has running room and Braxton could fly but nobody thought he was the xfactor. I can give more examples if need be as well but it’s opinion driven...success is determined by results. Another example at JF 2008-2009 Desmond Goode ran for nearly 1700 that season and the back up Rashad Hall ran for 800 both were good backs but without Goode JF doesn’t make it where they did this season. He single handedly took over games, and the one game he didn’t play JF won 20-14 over a terrible Rustburg team.
— — location matters but again check the racial dynamics of the location...the suburbs generally in central va aren’t diverse grounds, so yes I’m reading in between the lines, and in all these examples minus SRHS and bburg there’s a stern and stark racial disparity between Utah and Florida, Danville and Rustburg, southern vs northern GA, maintaining a stronger pool could also be due to the socioeconomic factors keeping some people trapped some places, but there’s a lot more that goes into this athleticism debate than just location, systematically housing in the US wasn’t fairly distributed, still isn’t today, you ever heard of redlining? I don’t agree with the premise that black or AA makes the better athlete BC of (insert whatever)...but I do know why the argument is that JF quality of athletes isn’t the same and it’s not because of the quantity and quality of the school...it’s a larger 4A and in an affluent as well as desirable area, but not everybody can afford to live there same as other locales. There’s so much that goes into what an area looks like that you forget what people are ostracized or excluded to get it to be that way, again the biggest quote in America if you want the truth is FOLLOW THE MONEY.
*I am not disputing anything you have wrote here, all good insights - the dynamic is nuanced and constantly changing. All that was said is that different schools have different amounts of athletes. Period. I didn't insinuate why that was or try to dissect the issue, just stated the obvious that different schools have different qualities and quantities of athletes.(and this is of course something a coach takes into account when deciding where to coach).
— — 600 yards in a loss, cause they can’t stop anybody, defense hadn’t been played since christmas came back and in the games that mattered most it’s what hurt them the most, the motto is if we score we might win if they don’t score we will win so the offense produces but why has no rb done what jones has done in there since? And remember jones left an altavista team with UVA’s Juan thornhill to come to JF, so he missed out on some rings and looks.
*Wins, losses, and defense was not what was being discussed. You had made the comment that without Navy or someone like him that that offense doesn't work. I was simply pointing out that the offense has continued to work without Navy.
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Agreed it’s taken into account but again I’ve stated multiple times that JF has athletes and the WELL IS NOT DRY, they may not have the depth to replace same athlete repetitively but if your arguments about the offense and etc being successful are what you believe then they must have what I’m stating...athletes on the field. Maybe they all don’t match up 11 v 11 but they CAN put athletes out there but are they better than the less athletic kid? this is football, the most athletic team isn’t always the winner, which is why I keep drawing on the point of racial makeup doesn’t quantity of qualify the caliber of athletes. I gave examples of schools to support my theory in previous posts (Blacksburg is an example), where the athletes don’t “look” like what you expect, but the truth is that a kid running a true 4.4 aren’t plentiful in hsfb and if they can do they put it together. I just want to dispel the narrative that a certain area BC it looks and/or has these things created a higher baseline quantity or quality of athlete.
Secondly show me where I said the offense didn’t work, I stated navy was the best thing to happen to the Christmas era the second stint...where is the lie? Has the offense reached the same level of success as it did with navy in terms of wins and losses? Again you can have your opinion but don’t confuse/combine my posts with another posters POV.
I think forest is an appealing job but there are some drawbacks as have been echoed Time and time again in this post. The problem most have is that no coach with head coaching experience has APPLIED...not been interviewed but applied meaning shown interest in wanting to be there.
*Again, I have not once said or insinuated that the racial makeup of a school qualifies or quantifies the caliber of athlete at the school - simply that each school has a separate quality and quantity of athletes, never said why that is the way it is just stated that it existed. Others read my original post and tried to make that what I said, but if you go back and read my original post you'll see I NEVER said that.
"so you get talent but like somebody outlined you don’t get the depth of plug in play, when the big lineman for forest goes down they have somebody who could fill in, when the one speed demon goes down, there goes majority of the team speed."
*This is the only point I am trying to make. This is the case at JF and it's not the case everywhere - schools are different.
"Secondly show me where I said the offense didn’t work, I stated navy was the best thing to happen to the Christmas era the second stint...where is the lie? Has the offense reached the same level of success as it did with navy in terms of wins and losses? Again you can have your opinion but don’t confuse/combine my posts with another posters POV."
You're 100% correct I was confusing your post with another one. My mistake.
I’m willing to bet greater than 75% of the public schools in the state of Virginia if they lose a starter don’t have a player ready to match that production or output. There were countless examples that occurred across the state in this past season alone, seasons in high school get derailed by one injury. Jefferson forest has more depth than most teams in the district, but personally I don’t think glass nor heritage has the depth the way you’re speaking of it. They May have a speed guy to replace a speed guy but there’s a noticeable drop off unless they take a player who could’ve went both ways. I see the argument you’re painting but in our area central va the schools we would say have that wealth of talent and athleticism are the city schools...who are made up of a considerable portion of minorities. I didn’t say you were who made this a racial thing but posters alluded to it therefore I wanted to address it.
*We'll have to agree to disagree on Heritage and Glass' depth but that's quite alright
I don't think JF has more depth than most in the region but I think they have the potential to. There seem to be several contributing factors to this but based off what I understand, parents play a key part in this. Not all but so many from the JF area these days live an extremely privileged and comfortable life. I've talked with several coaches from this last staff that said they've never seen hard work met with as much resistance as with many of the players and parents of the last couple years. I agree that all the potential is there but it's going to take more than nice facilities and even more than the right coaching staff to fix some of these issues.
You're exactly right about the perceived depth at Glass....just look at their region championship game against Blacksburg. They had several starters out and it showed.
Jimmy the Greek, dead for over 22 years, has risen from his grave and is now posting on a forum about Virginia HS football.
Na, for some bizarre reason you apparently want to equate comments made here to that of Jimmy the Greek, but no such thing has happened, as the conversation that followed has clarified. You can read that into it if you'd like but you can't possibly directly quote any comment made here as justification. Not only were original comments made not akin to Jimmy the Greek's, but the ensuing explanation only solidified that that's not what's going on here. Sorry to disappoint.
Whatever you say, dude-who-registers-during-the-middle-of-the-offseason-for-one-specific-thread-because-this-was-somehow-the-straw-that-broke-the-lurker's-back.
Whew, that's quite a name but okay I've been called worse. Also, feel free at any point to directly quote something I've said that you deem akin to Jimmy the Greek's. Otherwise you're just having a conversation with yourself and have a promising career as a Fox News host(ya know, hurl wild accusations at folks and hope it sticks without ever substantiating your accusations with real evidence).
Heard today that they have it narrowed down to two. (former position coach at LU and some coach who isn't currently coaching, but used to be an HC at a school in Texas).
No where he was at Bluefield then Ferrum and he got kicked out of the school sad situation
And people in the South of this State want to bash Sherando players , when besides Salem , not One , ONE ! Has done crap forever in 4A.
hopefully he gets on the right track
The difference though is that "not one, ONE" of those fans boast year in and year out about how good their team is going to be or how deep they are going to make in the playoffs.
Yeh they do and a lot of people talk up teams during the season. JF , Pulaski , EC Glass, Louisa , Amherst etc.... everyone talks up the team they support ...the difference is how many years has it been since any of those teams won a state championship?long time! Never? All I know is Sherando is 1-1 VS Salem in the last 20 years. Lost four state champ games and will keep working towards that goal , and try to be dominant on the way there . Sherando wasn’t healthy in many key positions last year late in the season. That happens, but there is nothing wrong with people being positive about the team they support.
And Sherando will most likely have a player drafted in the NFL next month ! So we are excited about that! And don’t care care about what any people think across the state . Sherando is just fine , and we have beaten some good teams , and loss some .thats the way it goes
Didn't he just get fired as a 9th grade coach at Odessa-Permian? Someone thinks this is the best hire?
Interesting hire to say the least. Has been a head coach at two high schools in Virginia. He was at Gloucester from 2002-2004 and had an overall record of 3-27. He was at Mathews from 2009-2012 and had a record of 20-22. He was named head coach at Grafton for the 2017-2018 year and resigned right before the season citing health reasons. Last year he coached a 9th grade team in Odessa Texas. May end up doing a great job and from all accounts is a really great guy but hardly a proven winner.
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