question on enforcing penalty

[Hampton Roads 6]

Play: as clock hits 0:00 to end first half, Team "A" intercepts pass thrown by Team "B". Team "A" DB who intercepted pass returns it about 40 yards and is knocked out of bounds by Team "B". then there's a late hit out of bounds and flag is thrown for personal foul.

Question: Is penalty marked off at start of 2nd half kickoff, or does Team "A" get one "untimed play" to end first half ?

Thanks in advance for "ruling"

 

[White hat]

Kickoff in second half.

Only live ball fouls would result in an untimed down because the down would technically be replayed.

 

[FBRef]

The first half ended when the runner went OOB. Whatever happens after that is second half enforcement.

It's no different than a late hit on 4th down when the offense doesn't make the line to gain. The offensive team's series ended when the runner went OOB. The late hit is marked off before the defensive team takes over on downs.

 

[rgalpaugh]

I have a similar question. On the last play of the first half, team A made a field goal and there was a roughing the kicker penalty. The field goal stood and the penalty was enforced on the second half kickoff. In nearly every other circumstance Team A would have to choose... I think. Was this correct and is it to stop the defense from taking a free run at the kicker? Thanks in advance.

 

[White hat]

If R (receiving team) fouls during a successful field goal, K (kicking team) has the choice of accepting the penalty and replaying the down -- also known as taking the points off the board -- or accepting the results of the play and enforcing the penalty from the succeeding spot. In this case the succeeding spot is the second half kickoff.

Another thing that prevents a team from taking a run at the kicker is the fact that it has no positive outcome for R. If the kick is missed or blocked, K gets another shot at the kick (if there is no time) or an automatic first down. If the kick is good, there is still an enforcement.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

rule needs tweaked

I think the rule gurus at NFHS need to tweak that rule. an untimed down should be awarded in the situation I described. because in reality it was a penalty on the "defense". Just my opinion

 

[rgalpaugh]

So allowing the field goal to stand and enforcing the yardage penalty on the second half kickoff was incorrect if I understand your response?

 

[FBRef]

Re: rule needs tweaked

Originally posted by Hampton Roads 6:
I think the rule gurus at NFHS need to tweak that rule. an untimed down should be awarded in the situation I described. because in reality it was a penalty on the "defense". Just my opinion

Whether the foul is on the defense or not has nothing to do with it.

If a LIVE ball foul occurs on the last down of a period, the period is extended with an untimed down.

This was a dead ball foul. The 2nd quarter ended when the player went OOB. Anything that happens after that is penalized in the third quarter. The same rule exists in the NCAA and NFL too.

 

[White hat]

Originally posted by rgalpaugh:
So allowing the field goal to stand and enforcing the yardage penalty on the second half kickoff was incorrect if I understand your response?

I must have writtned that poorly. Keeping the points and enforcement on the 2nd half KO is the most likely outcome.

Because the FG was good, the kicking team could choose enforcement right then (which most would do if time was not an issue) or take the points and the yards go on succeeding spot. If time expired in the half, this is what they would do.

Succeeding spot is usually where they would kick off. However, because the succeeding spot is the second half kickoff, it could be from where the other team kicks off. The referee will inform the captain of the team with the option that the yards will be assessed, which could have an effect on his choice.

The effect on the choice would be much more dramatic if it came on the last play of the 4th quarter and the FG tied the score. In that case, OT would start, depending on which team goes on offense, 1st and 25 or 1st and 5.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Re: rule needs tweaked

currently half ends when player goes OB. that's the major part of the rule that needs tweaking. everything pertianing to play should be "finished" as part of first half.

if a coach had committed an infraction to warrant ejection after player went OB, would he be "sent to showers" at end of first half, or start of 2nd half.

 

[FBRef]

Re: rule needs tweaked

Originally posted by Hampton Roads 6:
currently half ends when player goes OB. that's the major part of the rule that needs tweaking. everything pertianing to play should be "finished" as part of first half.

Nope, sorry but that doesn't work. The rule has to be the same for the end of EVERY quarter. The rule is also consistentt with the END of the game. Game ends, late hit OOB. Do you seriously think we're going to have another play after the game has ended? No, we're not.

If also consistne tiwth 4th down and the end of a series. $th and 10, A1 runs 9 yards, goes OOB and gets hit by B1. A's series ended when A1 went OOB. It's B's ball after the penalty is assessed.

Rule have to have consistency. Your way, no consistency.

if a coach had committed an infraction to warrant ejection after player went OB, would he be "sent to showers" at end of first half, or start of 2nd half.

When he leaves the field at the end of the 2nd quarter, he's not coming back. The foul would be penalized on the 2nd half opening kickoff.

 

[Fadamor]

Re: rule needs tweaked

Originally posted by Hampton Roads 6:
if a coach had committed an infraction to warrant ejection after player went OB, would he be "sent to showers" at end of first half, or start of 2nd half.

Ejections and penalty yard assessments are two distinct portions of penalty enforcement. One is not tied to the other. Offended teams always have the option to decline the penalty yardage portion of a penalty enforcement. That is what they are actually declining when they "decline the penalty". If the penalty also included a disqualification, the disqualification is still immediately carried out no matter when the penalty yardage will be assessed or even if the offended team declines the penalty.

For example, team A is getting routed by team B and late in the game, a player for team A throws a punch in frustration - which gets flagged for fighting. Team B decides team A is suffering enough and declines the penalty. No yardage is marked off, but the player who threw the punch is STILL disqualified for fighting and must immediately leave the field.

Take the same situation to the end of the 1st half and the result is different only if B accepts the penalty: The player is still disqualified, but team A will have 15 yards assessed against them on the 2nd half kickoff.

To add an untimed down to the first half grants one team an unfair advantage in certain circumstances. With the rules the way they are now, there can be no "gaming" of the first half clock.