SALEM goes down to LCA
- Thread starter rainman17
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Sounds like without Mags things just aren’t the same but it’s early in the year a lot of football left to be played. That LCA team might just be that damn good.
Great game to watch. I have never seen an LCA team with this much depth before... they have backup DTs that are 6'5 320 and can move. Is #72 really a freshman or was he listed wrong?
I might talk more about the game tomorrow but Davidson was the biggest difference in the game by far. He played virtually every snap on both sides of the ball and made a bunch of big plays on defense. For comparison, Peyton Lewis played maybe three snaps of defense on the other side of the ball. Shoot, Davidson was even the gunner on punt team every time and kept Lewis from ever having a shot to return... which was a major factor. You would think that the Salem coaches would have seen that and double teamed him at least once but they didn't even attempt to.
This is the exact type of team that is built to play Salem well.... tremendous up front on both sides of the ball and can successfully run right at them. Fortunately for Salem, they will matchup really well against spread teams and teams not as talented up front (the latter being literally other opponent they will face) but there is still a lot to work on. Again, will try to talk more on this tomorrow.
PS. Props to Jaelyn Allen, Chris Cole and Julian Warme for playing their asses off all game long. Jackson Byrie and several others can be included as well. #78 for LCA is an absolute Monster on both sides of the ball also.
I might talk more about the game tomorrow but Davidson was the biggest difference in the game by far. He played virtually every snap on both sides of the ball and made a bunch of big plays on defense. For comparison, Peyton Lewis played maybe three snaps of defense on the other side of the ball. Shoot, Davidson was even the gunner on punt team every time and kept Lewis from ever having a shot to return... which was a major factor. You would think that the Salem coaches would have seen that and double teamed him at least once but they didn't even attempt to.
This is the exact type of team that is built to play Salem well.... tremendous up front on both sides of the ball and can successfully run right at them. Fortunately for Salem, they will matchup really well against spread teams and teams not as talented up front (the latter being literally other opponent they will face) but there is still a lot to work on. Again, will try to talk more on this tomorrow.
PS. Props to Jaelyn Allen, Chris Cole and Julian Warme for playing their asses off all game long. Jackson Byrie and several others can be included as well. #78 for LCA is an absolute Monster on both sides of the ball also.
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Out coached, out played, out manned!! If Lewis had half the heart as #8 does for LCA it would be different, but he doesn’t. #8 for LCA was involved in all phases of the game and never came out and played his ass off the entire game! Lewis needs to take some notes if he wants to make it in the next level. Great kid and all, but just didn’t seem to have it like #8 does.
Salems play calling is terrible, it’s been terrible for the last couple of years. May be time to get an offensive coordinator change! One that knows how to use speed and incorporate a zone blocking scheme to get quick passes to these speedsters all over the field. And to allow a back some lanes to run in. The good ole days of Salem football running it down your throat and being successful (success=championships) are gone until they get some meat and taters in the trenches that they haven’t had as of late. Sometimes it’s ok to stray from the norm when you don’t have the personnel to do what’s comfortable! Sorry if I ruffle some feathers of the Salem faithful, but I’m not the only one thinking this. Walking out to the car, could hear several people saying the same thing. Such a waste of talent and speed on the field this year
Salems play calling is terrible, it’s been terrible for the last couple of years. May be time to get an offensive coordinator change! One that knows how to use speed and incorporate a zone blocking scheme to get quick passes to these speedsters all over the field. And to allow a back some lanes to run in. The good ole days of Salem football running it down your throat and being successful (success=championships) are gone until they get some meat and taters in the trenches that they haven’t had as of late. Sometimes it’s ok to stray from the norm when you don’t have the personnel to do what’s comfortable! Sorry if I ruffle some feathers of the Salem faithful, but I’m not the only one thinking this. Walking out to the car, could hear several people saying the same thing. Such a waste of talent and speed on the field this year
LCA is a great team and well coached and will go deep in the playoffs if not !! They’re big and physical in the trenches and have a good qb and an absolute stud running back. Good recievers. The one thing that will hurt them is a lot of 2 way players. They were tired in the 2nd half, but they did keep grinding
Gideon is every bit of the star recruit that he is, had a chance to see him live last year and he was worth the price of admission. Plays both ways but most games he’ll be sitting out in the second half playing situationally.
I won’t knock Lewis, he scored tonight and because I haven’t seen him live I won’t comment on his heart/intangibles. Salem will be fine it’s week 1, and that’s a tough game one for anyone. They’ll keep grinding and churning things out to keep iron sharpening iron and the tradition but they have a target on their back because of their “star” status.
First, hats off to LCA for winning the game. Davidson is a great player, and without his play on offense, defense, and special teams, I don't think they beat Salem. His speed in all phases was a game changer. Great OL & DL play for the Bulldogs. Great job coaching and to their defense for creating 3 turnovers, that stopped good drives. I really think this team has a good shot to win the Seminole, represent Region C, to make the championship game even, and depending on the matchup maybe even win it all. I think they have that potential, but it's a long season so we'll see.
For Salem, they looked pretty good overall for a 1st game. They obviously have a lot to work on. OLine did play better than last year, that being said they will have to improve to be a good contender come playoff time. I was talking to a news guy after the game and he said Salem was missing one of their OL starters. I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention, because I didn't notice. LCA had good size and mobility, I don't think Salem will play anybody that good on the lines for the rest of the regular season.
@Kilroy25 I agree with your enthusiasm about Davidson, awesome player, but I completely disagree with your comments about Lewis. If you want to question the coaching for play calling, or on whether certain guys should be playing more both ways, I can respect your opinion on that. They are adults and are used to criticism- it comes with the job.
[If Lewis had half the heart as #8 does for LCA it would be different, but he doesn’t. #8 for LCA was involved in all phases of the game and never came out and played his ass off the entire game! Lewis needs to take some notes if he wants to make it in the next level. Great kid and all, but just didn’t seem to have it like #8 does.]
Questioning the kid's heart is over the line in my book. It was 1 game, Peyton played hard. He didn't have the big plays that we're accustomed to, but I'm guessing he ran for more than 100. Davidson had the big breakaway in the 4th, made a ton of tackles on D and played well on special teams. He had a better game, leave it at that.
For Salem, they looked pretty good overall for a 1st game. They obviously have a lot to work on. OLine did play better than last year, that being said they will have to improve to be a good contender come playoff time. I was talking to a news guy after the game and he said Salem was missing one of their OL starters. I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention, because I didn't notice. LCA had good size and mobility, I don't think Salem will play anybody that good on the lines for the rest of the regular season.
@Kilroy25 I agree with your enthusiasm about Davidson, awesome player, but I completely disagree with your comments about Lewis. If you want to question the coaching for play calling, or on whether certain guys should be playing more both ways, I can respect your opinion on that. They are adults and are used to criticism- it comes with the job.
[If Lewis had half the heart as #8 does for LCA it would be different, but he doesn’t. #8 for LCA was involved in all phases of the game and never came out and played his ass off the entire game! Lewis needs to take some notes if he wants to make it in the next level. Great kid and all, but just didn’t seem to have it like #8 does.]
Questioning the kid's heart is over the line in my book. It was 1 game, Peyton played hard. He didn't have the big plays that we're accustomed to, but I'm guessing he ran for more than 100. Davidson had the big breakaway in the 4th, made a ton of tackles on D and played well on special teams. He had a better game, leave it at that.
Tight game in which the difference was 3 turovers to 0. Salem had drive in first quarter and probably would have scored but interception. As far as badmouthing players and coaches I am not doing. The offenses were very similar.
Game decided on a number of factors
1. Salem turnovers ending promising drives.
2. LCA made very few mistakes, well coached. Great game plan
3. LCA defense limited Salems explosive plays in running game.
4. LCA won the line play battle on both sides of ball.
5a. Salems offense not diverse enough to handle teams that load the box (Ec Glass did same thing last year). At times it looked like Salem only had two plays---fullback trap and pitch.
5b. Cole and Martin not being used enough in the offense.
I thought Salem was better than last year but they still have the same fatal flaw. Against good teams with good linemen Salems offense not diverse enough to handle a stacked box.
1. Salem turnovers ending promising drives.
2. LCA made very few mistakes, well coached. Great game plan
3. LCA defense limited Salems explosive plays in running game.
4. LCA won the line play battle on both sides of ball.
5a. Salems offense not diverse enough to handle teams that load the box (Ec Glass did same thing last year). At times it looked like Salem only had two plays---fullback trap and pitch.
5b. Cole and Martin not being used enough in the offense.
I thought Salem was better than last year but they still have the same fatal flaw. Against good teams with good linemen Salems offense not diverse enough to handle a stacked box.
Sorry you feel I crossed the line, I saw what I saw, when the game is on the line, a champions heart wouldn’t come out of the game because he’s gassed, especially if he plays one way!! 🤷
He was in on last drive. Out gained Davidson 137, 135 and had 72 yard kickoff return. Way off base
Talent and heart are two separate things. Never said he wasn’t talented. I knew I was gonna ruffle some feathers, lol. Can’t have an opinion on this board without being labeled a troll or some other bullshit!!
I have no dog in this fight and only saw the second half of the game on video, but it's not PL's fault if he does not get more reps on defense. @Southbottoms analysis about not being able to run against a stacked box is spot on; however, he forgot to mention why LCA stacked the box. You can't blame PL if he struggles running against 8 men in the box. Would you rather have a sorry back and play against a straight defense or a beast who only needs a small seam to go to the house? @Kilroy25 that's not heart, that's coaching/play calling, line play, and not being able to pass to keep defenses honest. All which have been said about Salem by you and others for the past two years. As far as conditioning goes it was crazy hot last night. You guys (Salem) have maybe one or two more challenges left and you will get better. Peyton Lewis is a blessing and a curse. In the past play action passing and precise routes complimented your great backs. Just need to work getting your stud into space.
For the love of God, I’m not saying he isn’t talented. He and Cole are the 2 most talented on the team. He came out of the game gassed, a one way player!! If you have ever watched a Salem practice, conditioning isn’t an issue. Watch the Salem vs Franklin county game from last year! It’s not the first time I’ve seen it.
@Kilroy25 I was not trying to insinuate you indicated that. In fact, I reiterated what each of you have said. Dinwiddie has the same issue with Dalton. The difference is Coach Mills is very keen at creating space by going to an empty backfield, using a ton of screens, and throwing deep to keep defenses honest. The Salem offense is unique and is tough to defend on short notice (playoffs); however, without solid line play and being able to hold blocks the Spartans will struggle. More importantly future Spartans learn this offense from day one. It's kind of hard to significantly change a kids mind set and technique in high school. It can be done, but expect struggles.
It's just that your opinion is without substance and people are voicing their opinion which adamantly disagrees with yours. I guess opinions can be voiced on this board after all.
You are absolutely correct! Coach Mills has the ability to coach the talent he has! The old Counter and trap that’s been force fed down Salems throat since youth is all fine and well, but at the end of the day, the game has evolved, athletes have evolved, if Salem isn’t careful, they will start losing their athletes to other schools that can showcase their talent, it’s just the way of the world nowadays!! Salem’s offense works well when you have a line that can do it, big and physical, that haven’t had that in a while now, without an offensive coordinator to be able to be creative and cater to the strengths of the team, Salem will be left behind when they face teams like Phoebus and Dinwiddie, or Glass.
Salem will more than likely roll through the regular season and beat up on the likes of Cave Spring, Hidden Valley, etc, may struggle with PH and Fleming alittle, but for the most part will roll teams and claim that fools gold, only to get smacked in the mouth when it really counts, playoffs!
About Coach Mills, those Chilhowie boys from the 80’s are just built different!!! Lol
All that speed on the team, and they run fullback up the middle constantly. Is there anyone on the planet that didn't know Salem was going to run fullback up the middle on 4th and 2 in the first half. It got stuffed. Salem's offense does well against mediocre and lesser teams. But when they play the better teams, they get shut down, with no plan B. Their coach is old school and thinks the same old plays will work against anybody. Sorry they don't. Does anyone remember the last time Salem was a threat passing the ball? Me either.
Something to think about too was that Salem's new QB Taylor was getting his first real start. Remember, he's coming from a different school system, a different school that's two divisions down and a team that ran an entirely different offense. To top it off, he was injured for most of last season at Glenvar. That's a lot of change for anybody, let alone a 16 year old that's taking over for one of the more storied football teams in the state against a top tier team full of speed and size and in front of the largest crowd in which he's ever played. He made some great throws, but threw the two INT's in crucial drives. He struggled at times making reads and seeing down field, which would be expected of almost anyone in their first start. It just happened to be against such a well coached, disciplined, and talented team that created huge momentum swings back in LCA's direction. I'm sure that played into a more limited playbook and fewer passes, especially with the given threat of Lewis and less risky toss sweeps. I've said it before, but Taylor is a great kid and incredibly hard worker. He will be glued to film and take more reps and throws this week than his coaches ask of him, simply because he's that type of person. I think you'll see a totally different Salem team by mid-season as he adapts to this level and atmosphere and becomes more comfortable with the playbook and timing of the game.
As far as everything else goes from last night, I actually thought Salem looked pretty good. They had quite a few sustained drives on offense, even with a vastly undersized line. Pass blocking wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it might be. Taylor often had enough time to get the ball downfield. Defensively, Salem played well minus about three plays. Davidson had one big run and a few other nice gains. Then there was one blown coverage that allowed for a score and the one-handed circus catch for a huge pick-up. I honestly think the difference was the turnovers. Two of the three were on drives that Salem almost always finishes for touchdowns.
Bottom line is LCA is a fantastic team that came to play and did what they had to do in a hostile environment. Hats off to their players and coaches who were class acts and provided us with a great game. I still think Salem is going to be a force that threatens a deep run this year. I'm not worried yet about the passing game because I think it will come within the next three or four games. Circle the PH contest and let's see how things have opened up offensively by then. I'm just glad high school football is back!!
As far as everything else goes from last night, I actually thought Salem looked pretty good. They had quite a few sustained drives on offense, even with a vastly undersized line. Pass blocking wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it might be. Taylor often had enough time to get the ball downfield. Defensively, Salem played well minus about three plays. Davidson had one big run and a few other nice gains. Then there was one blown coverage that allowed for a score and the one-handed circus catch for a huge pick-up. I honestly think the difference was the turnovers. Two of the three were on drives that Salem almost always finishes for touchdowns.
Bottom line is LCA is a fantastic team that came to play and did what they had to do in a hostile environment. Hats off to their players and coaches who were class acts and provided us with a great game. I still think Salem is going to be a force that threatens a deep run this year. I'm not worried yet about the passing game because I think it will come within the next three or four games. Circle the PH contest and let's see how things have opened up offensively by then. I'm just glad high school football is back!!
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Losses to Martinsburg, Patrick Henry, ECGlass, and now LCA seem to have common thread. Salem offensive line can't establish running game between tackles; Salem can't break big play on pitch; passing game sporadic at best. The formula is out there; Stop inside run by putting numbers in the box, don't give up big play on pitch, bend don't break , make Salem beat you by throwing the ball. Also don't kick or punt to Lewis.
Exactly! Any coach with half a brain, knows what Salem will try to do EVERY game. The better teams will stop it. Un till Salem can show more diversity in offensive play calling, they are doomed to fail against the better teams.
For the record I still think that Salem will be very good this year... the QB play should improve tremendously and they will get a lot of other things fixed.
Also, this is the best LCA team that I have ever seen. In the past they had some big-time players but then a lot of major weaknesses but on this team the supporting cast is significantly better and they don't have massive liabilities they are forced to try to hide. If they can stay healthy I think they will be EXTREMELY tough to beat.
One last thing, this is probably the worst matchup for Salem from a personnel, coaching and play-style standpoint... especially this early on when Salem's passing game is not quite firing yet. I do think you will see them get better at getting the ball out quick and getting guys in space. They were pretty effective when they did that last night, just didn't try it very much.
PS. I would also like to see them run some jet sweeps off that motion they run. Several years ago they ran it a lot with great success and it really stresses the defense to have to account for it but for some reason in the last few seasons they have not done it once.
Also, this is the best LCA team that I have ever seen. In the past they had some big-time players but then a lot of major weaknesses but on this team the supporting cast is significantly better and they don't have massive liabilities they are forced to try to hide. If they can stay healthy I think they will be EXTREMELY tough to beat.
One last thing, this is probably the worst matchup for Salem from a personnel, coaching and play-style standpoint... especially this early on when Salem's passing game is not quite firing yet. I do think you will see them get better at getting the ball out quick and getting guys in space. They were pretty effective when they did that last night, just didn't try it very much.
PS. I would also like to see them run some jet sweeps off that motion they run. Several years ago they ran it a lot with great success and it really stresses the defense to have to account for it but for some reason in the last few seasons they have not done it once.
That’s the problem, Salem is going to run into teams like that in the playoffs. And yes, with this much speed, Salem needs to run a full spread offense, the trap and counter and now quick pitch ain’t gonna cut it this year, same as it didn’t last year! Even if the passing game improves, will they use it? They didn’t last year! They still ran the same thing over and over and over, Salem has 9 regular season games left, put a true spread offense in and work in it the next 9 games. What they did last night won’t work on the region championship and beyond, or be satisfied with being the region runner up! It’s not about the tried and true, it’s about the Jimmie’s and the Joes in the trenches!
To our friends from Dinwiddie and Lake Taylor please do not take personally but I would like to make a couple of points. That same offense was the reason we beat Lake Taylor twice and Dinwiddie once in championships. Yea we hit a couple of passes. One More Hokie made a great point about new QB and 2 picks.
My other point is I cannot defend Kilroy for assassinating a teenagers character when everything about him says the opposite. He was a leader in track and speaks very well about his teammates. He is well spoken. Several runs yesterday he gained extra yardage after they had him stopped. I still think that come playoff time teams will worry about the Spartans, especially after 10 championships in 26 years and many other years where we were close and I think we ran the same offense.
My other point is I cannot defend Kilroy for assassinating a teenagers character when everything about him says the opposite. He was a leader in track and speaks very well about his teammates. He is well spoken. Several runs yesterday he gained extra yardage after they had him stopped. I still think that come playoff time teams will worry about the Spartans, especially after 10 championships in 26 years and many other years where we were close and I think we ran the same offense.
They have their spread/shotgun package but it's pretty limited as far as the playbook goes. There is a zero percent chance that they will change their base offense though or add many new plays. They might try to utilize that package a little bit more but that is the extent of changes you will see in that direction.
Kilroys comments indefensible concerning Peyton. Over 200 yards in all purpose yards last night. Broke tackles left and right.
I said earlier in the summer we didn't need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Within Salems system there are plays that get players n space. We just haven't been running them.
Assasinate?? alittle dramatic much??🙄whatever. I’ll revisit this post in November and give you a big told ya so!!
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I don’t need defending, the difference between you and I, is I’m looking at it objectively and not emotionally!! Still doesn’t change the fact that he came out of the game gassed, when the team needed him the most.. A one way player!!
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The formula is to win the battle in the trenches.
So he was gassed. Being gassed and not having hart are 2 completely different things. I saw a lot of players gassed out there last night. He has played both ways in the past so I know he can do that as well. Maybe you have never had to the experience where sometimes no matter how bad you want something your body just says no. An example would be a workout that you do just about everyday. One day you get up hit the gym when you're just not feeling it but you go anyway. That same workout now seems 10x's harder. You push through but you have to take a few breaks.
He gave 100% effort while in the game. I will take that anytime over a player that takes plays off while in the game.
Objectively and not emotionally????? BS
Just the opposite. You have made some random judgement on the character of a kid based completely on your subjective made up standard about playing both ways and getting tired. Also, it doesn't seem like you have considered that his coming out for a short period of time was a coaching decision. The best thing you could do is apologize or just delete your messages concerning PL. This kind of unsubstantiated and subjective criticisms on a young man's character is unwanted, not appreciated and asinine .
You've had opportunity all day to do what was right. Repeatedly you have chose not to. Many have pointed out your poor decision to question a high school players character. You have continued to insult the player. Your failure to reexamine your decision says a tremendous amount about your lack of character. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. You may need some help getting that head of yours unstuck. Good luck
And I guess your the one to tell him??? Let's see, an anonymous poster on a message board who criticizes the character of a high school football player based on arbitrary and absurd standards---yea , that makes you qualified------qualified to visit your local proctologist and get a head resection.
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