And you're probably right . The competition just isn't there for anyone to give Salem an even fight .
Salem vs Amherst score
- Thread starter SalemPride
- Start date
Where is this fantasy land where the RR/BR was always filled with 10 win squads? Christiansburg used to be a joke, Blacksburg was never good, Byrd was up-and-down just like today, Northside was good like twice a decade, CS rarely threatened, LB was a perennial cupcake, Alleghany was a joke. The only team on Salem's schedule from 10-20 years ago that has gotten demonstrably worse as a program is Pulaski. The rest is mostly just schools that have either improved(Northside, Christiansburg at least for a bit, LB would be a great opponent now but they dumped us off the schedule) or stayed about the same.
The old schedule wasn't some force of nature Salem bitterly battled through.
e: things look worse now because Salem has a more modern offensive approach and also the talent to back it up. The old "3 yards and a cloud" of the past would get the same wins today in most cases but the scores would look a lot different. The MOV might be different but Salem's been beating bad teams on the schedule for decades now(and then winning state anyway).
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If not for Ramsey, no telling what the score would have been. That kid is awesome
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When I played the competition was very good. WF, Pulaski, Christiansburg, Cave Spring, Hidden Valley and Blacksburg were all good. Byrd was formidable and Northside was actually by far the worst team.
I agree as well when I played there was more competition collectively from everyone in the district .
You guys are being a bit wistful. I've got a good idea of when you played Shabutie and I'm guessing Yallmissedout is maybe a bit younger than that.
CS - since '99(I'm using VHSL-Reference here and that's as far back as they go) they have as many 2 or less win seasons as 9 or more win seasons.
Blacksburg - sub .500 record in 9 of last 16 years, one 9 win season
HV - 5 sub .500 seasons since school formed in 2002. one 10 win season(2006 10-3), zero 9 win seasons, one 8 win season(2014 8-3)
Cburg - 4 sub .500 seasons. saw upturn since Cromer was hired, saw good 3 year stretch from 2010-2012 but those obviously coincided with D1 talent on the team. have nosedived since those kids graduated and show no signs of turning around soon.
WF - was more stable when you played but kings of the 1-and-done. has exactly one season in last 16 years where they played more than 1 playoff game. slightly more of an anomaly since they were only on the schedule for a decade(last game was 2011) and only ever beat Salem once.
Pulaski - nosedived since 2001. one notable since was 12-1 run in 2008. saw slight return last season at 9-2.
Byrd - Byrd has never been formidable, Highfill just knows how to occasionally pull a rabbit out of the hat against Salem better than most, he's just that coach that every program has that knows how to pull one out now and then that he shouldn't. One 10 win season and one 9 win season and eight .sub 500 seasons does not a good team make.
I think you guys are confusing periods of down play with an overall drop.
Like I said, it shouldn't be a coincidence that a more modern approach to the game has resulted in a team that usually wins anyway simply winning by more(it's not a coincidence that receiving records have been broken recently) which is going to lend itself to talks about their competition when the reality is the competition was pretty much always like this and if you want to trade Pulaski being worse recently I'll take Northside being far better.
This year's team isn't last year's team but there are so many guys on this team that helped win state last year. You're not witnessing some demonstrative change in play or structure in the program, you're just seeing a team with flaws they didn't have a few months ago.
They lost by 2 points to a team who will probably win 11-13 games, this is not a loss by 25 to Carroll County.
CS - since '99(I'm using VHSL-Reference here and that's as far back as they go) they have as many 2 or less win seasons as 9 or more win seasons.
Blacksburg - sub .500 record in 9 of last 16 years, one 9 win season
HV - 5 sub .500 seasons since school formed in 2002. one 10 win season(2006 10-3), zero 9 win seasons, one 8 win season(2014 8-3)
Cburg - 4 sub .500 seasons. saw upturn since Cromer was hired, saw good 3 year stretch from 2010-2012 but those obviously coincided with D1 talent on the team. have nosedived since those kids graduated and show no signs of turning around soon.
WF - was more stable when you played but kings of the 1-and-done. has exactly one season in last 16 years where they played more than 1 playoff game. slightly more of an anomaly since they were only on the schedule for a decade(last game was 2011) and only ever beat Salem once.
Pulaski - nosedived since 2001. one notable since was 12-1 run in 2008. saw slight return last season at 9-2.
Byrd - Byrd has never been formidable, Highfill just knows how to occasionally pull a rabbit out of the hat against Salem better than most, he's just that coach that every program has that knows how to pull one out now and then that he shouldn't. One 10 win season and one 9 win season and eight .sub 500 seasons does not a good team make.
I think you guys are confusing periods of down play with an overall drop.
Like I said, it shouldn't be a coincidence that a more modern approach to the game has resulted in a team that usually wins anyway simply winning by more(it's not a coincidence that receiving records have been broken recently) which is going to lend itself to talks about their competition when the reality is the competition was pretty much always like this and if you want to trade Pulaski being worse recently I'll take Northside being far better.
This year's team isn't last year's team but there are so many guys on this team that helped win state last year. You're not witnessing some demonstrative change in play or structure in the program, you're just seeing a team with flaws they didn't have a few months ago.
They lost by 2 points to a team who will probably win 11-13 games, this is not a loss by 25 to Carroll County.
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Well.....to look on the bright side, we got all the worrying about the number one seed out of the way right off the bat.
What a nightmare. I will remember this as one of the all-time nightmarish Salem games. First, because of the heat. That was probably the highest heat-index regular season game I've ever attended. I don't think I've ever been in an outdoor venue at night where the atmosphere was so stifling. I felt like one of the melting Nazi guys from "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." And second, primarily because of how bad Salem's defense was.
Let me preface this by saying that, I know they're kids, I know they'll get better, and I know we all screw up. Lord knows, I know. But - wow. Words fail at Salem's defensive effort tonight. I tried to count missed tackles, and lost track somewhere in the twenties. And then there were the blown assignments on Amherst passes - what was it, four or five times Lancer receivers were running unattended? And there also was Salem's almost complete lack of physicality on the defensive side; such a stark contrast from the team we saw last December. I am in full realization it's a new year and a new team, but again - WOW.
Salem's problems were not confined to the defensive side of the ball. Dropped passes and lots of poorly thrown balls, especially in the second half. The pick six was a definite game-changer. Beckley's performance was really mystifying. He seemed to get less comfortable and confident as the game went on. Not what you'd expect from a player of his capabilities and credentials. I know no one is more upset than he his, and I expect he'll be working harder than ever the next two weeks.
Amherst is good. They should do very well this year. I don't want this to be one of those critiques where the author says, "Not to take anything away from Amherst, but..." - and then proceeds to take everything away from Amherst. They controlled the line of scrimmage on offense most of the night. The Lancers' last possession of the game was a thing of beauty, killing the last 6:45 on the clock, if I'm not mistaken. They have several good skill players, and nice team speed, overall. But IMHO, the story of the game was Salem's ineptitude, especially on defense. Amherst was the better team, but it was almost by default. Someone had to be better, after all, and it certainly wasn't going to be Salem on this night. So, congrats to the Lancers on a well-deserved win.
I just find myself baffled by Salem's performance. Yes, the lines are inexperienced, but I never would have thought a team with so many key players returning would appear so unfocused and ill-prepared in a season-opener. And it's been many a year since a Salem team turned in such a poor performance defensively. I'm having trouble recalling one. Either Cave Spring or Magna Vista in 2010, perhaps? Amherst is good, folks, but they're not 2014 Lake Taylor good.
Last year, I didn't like that Salem's open week came in week two. This year, I think it's a godsend. The Spartans really need to regroup, and get back to the basics of hitting and wrapping up. I'm not giving up or losing hope. I know the quality of Salem's coaching staff, and I know they'll get the kids to work. I just didn't think there would be so much to work on, so soon. It will be interesting to see how the Spartans fare against Byrd in two weeks. Should be an interesting season, overall!
What a nightmare. I will remember this as one of the all-time nightmarish Salem games. First, because of the heat. That was probably the highest heat-index regular season game I've ever attended. I don't think I've ever been in an outdoor venue at night where the atmosphere was so stifling. I felt like one of the melting Nazi guys from "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." And second, primarily because of how bad Salem's defense was.
Let me preface this by saying that, I know they're kids, I know they'll get better, and I know we all screw up. Lord knows, I know. But - wow. Words fail at Salem's defensive effort tonight. I tried to count missed tackles, and lost track somewhere in the twenties. And then there were the blown assignments on Amherst passes - what was it, four or five times Lancer receivers were running unattended? And there also was Salem's almost complete lack of physicality on the defensive side; such a stark contrast from the team we saw last December. I am in full realization it's a new year and a new team, but again - WOW.
Salem's problems were not confined to the defensive side of the ball. Dropped passes and lots of poorly thrown balls, especially in the second half. The pick six was a definite game-changer. Beckley's performance was really mystifying. He seemed to get less comfortable and confident as the game went on. Not what you'd expect from a player of his capabilities and credentials. I know no one is more upset than he his, and I expect he'll be working harder than ever the next two weeks.
Amherst is good. They should do very well this year. I don't want this to be one of those critiques where the author says, "Not to take anything away from Amherst, but..." - and then proceeds to take everything away from Amherst. They controlled the line of scrimmage on offense most of the night. The Lancers' last possession of the game was a thing of beauty, killing the last 6:45 on the clock, if I'm not mistaken. They have several good skill players, and nice team speed, overall. But IMHO, the story of the game was Salem's ineptitude, especially on defense. Amherst was the better team, but it was almost by default. Someone had to be better, after all, and it certainly wasn't going to be Salem on this night. So, congrats to the Lancers on a well-deserved win.
I just find myself baffled by Salem's performance. Yes, the lines are inexperienced, but I never would have thought a team with so many key players returning would appear so unfocused and ill-prepared in a season-opener. And it's been many a year since a Salem team turned in such a poor performance defensively. I'm having trouble recalling one. Either Cave Spring or Magna Vista in 2010, perhaps? Amherst is good, folks, but they're not 2014 Lake Taylor good.
Last year, I didn't like that Salem's open week came in week two. This year, I think it's a godsend. The Spartans really need to regroup, and get back to the basics of hitting and wrapping up. I'm not giving up or losing hope. I know the quality of Salem's coaching staff, and I know they'll get the kids to work. I just didn't think there would be so much to work on, so soon. It will be interesting to see how the Spartans fare against Byrd in two weeks. Should be an interesting season, overall!
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My senior year Hidden Valley was like 7-3 or 6-4 and beat Pulaski. Cave Spring was 7-3 Christiansburg actually beat us and were something like 7-3 or 8-2. Christiansburg AND Cave Spring almost beat Gretna in the playoffs (Gretna went on to win 3a state championship). Pulaski was tied with Salem at 8-1 going into the last regular season game and loser didn't make 4a playoffs. They finished 8-2. Byrd was solid, Blacksburg my Junior year beat us in the last game in the exact same situation as the Pulaski game and we missed the playoffs. WF was loaded with D1 players both of those years and were ranked high nationally when we beat them my junior year. LB and Northside were awful but they were pretty much the only awful teams. We had stopped playing Alleghany at that point and we played Brookville for our out of conference game.
I know that was a brief period of time but for those two years this area had a ton of talent.
You can't be Lake Taylor good in just 1 game.This isn' the small and quick Amherst team of the past.They still have playmakers but this team is driven by massive o-lineman(280-340 lineman) that can dominate a game.I think Salem still gets #1 seed cause Seminole is so difficult this year.I like Salem's team and I think it will be a rematch in the playoffs that will be must see..
At this very early stage, I think Woodgrove is the likely number one seed in 4A West. And though both Salem and Amherst should improve, I don't see either of them approaching the level of Lake Taylor's 2014 squad. That was probably the best team I've ever seen Salem play.
Good point and my thoughts exactly, can't be LT good in the first week but lots of season left still. Salem wouldn't be good if not for Ramsey, I believe he scored all the TDs, he is a beast. He was hard to stop but Amherst never gave up either
Thought Salem would look better than they did in the spread, they did not. In fact the decision to go to the spread on first and ten on Amherst 27, up three, backfired----pick 6. Salem runs that in for td or field goal they probably win.
Without knowing the specific years it is hard to know how accurate your recollection is but, it is pretty easy to call BS on at least one statement. WF has never been ranked high nationally nor have they had a team that would be termed by most people's standards loaded with D-1 players. They have had teams with a few like Suggs, Hardy, etc.. The Roanoke and New River valleys have produced D-1 players but, I am not sure if there has ever been a single team in the area loaded with D-1 talent.
You don't know, you shouldn't comment. WF was ranked nationally in the game. Linebacker Darryl Gresham went to Florida on scholarship. Linebacker Maurice Kitchens went to Marshall and was one of the best players on the team. Quarterback/DB Dere Hicks went to Illinois and they had the fastest 100m timed in the state (or tied for it) with Mijuan Curtis. Running back Dewayne Priest went on to play at Eastern Michigan. Linebacker EJ Webb to Georgia Southern. They also had a lineman that I can't remember the name of that went somewhere.
Good call buddy.
Congratulations to Amherst on the big win, it was an exciting game and Amherst executed on offense very well. Their defense executed well in key situations with big 4th down stops and the pick 6 was a game changer.
Salem should be a different team by the end of the year than the one we saw last night. I'm sure personnel will be shifted around on the lines to try and shake things up. Mundy, RT coming back later in the season will transform the OL and could help the DL as well by allowing Cardwell to focus on his natural DT spot.
Ramsey is just playing on a different level than everyone else. With improved line play on both sides, many other playmakers will shine too.
Amherst was much improved from last year. Great job by those guys.
I wouldn't worry about Salem, they were the #3 seed last year and handled 3 previously undefeated teams on the road. This team has good potential, we'll see how they respond from the adversity.
My guesstimate would be 2,500 to 3,000 on the home side, and a little over 100 visitors.
Good post Mike, but even with the anticipated improvement, I can't fathom this Salem team matching last year's defensively. I just don't think they're gonna have all the guys. Fervently hope they prove me wrong!
Way more than 100, but it was the first game and at Salem, crowds will be way more now. Considering Salem being the state champs, I would have expected a full stadium and it wasn't
Thanks for confirming buddy. I thought that might be the team you were talking about but, we have far different definitions of what being loaded with D-1 talent means. Furthermore, while they were good they were no where near the USA Top 25 and they weren't even the best team at Fleming in the last 20 years. So you're right it was a good call.
I think they can be good defensively, but only if they make changes in some positions. They do have the players. The right personnel just needs to be placed in the best position for them and their strengths. In my opinion, they aren't in the correct positions right now on defense. On offense, pass blocking needs to improve significantly. Actually, all blocking needs to improve. Also, too many players are playing both ways. I would have 22 starters and sub players in when needed. Two way players being exhausted hurt Salem several years ago too. The past two years they got away from playing a lot of kids two ways. Now it seems they are back to it. Some may say it's because they don't have the players to fill the positions. I disagree. They are athletes on the sidelines that can play. These boys can do it. It's time to go to work.
Also, why isn't Luke Owen #21 for Salem a receiver? Tucker and Owen would be a dual threat!
My reasoning is Luke looks great in space. He made the defense miss a lot on the returns. Throw him a quick pass and he's gone! With Tuck out there too, the defense would be very nervous.
I played with him and our whole class agrees . When you miss out to play in a state championship because of things that happen it makes you wonder
It makes me wonder why we're talking about this 3 years after he last played? I guess he should probably be in college figuring out how he will be a productive member of society, as all 20 year old young people should do.
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Mags' record says he and his staff do a pretty good job of putting personnel in a position to be successful. More relevant to your point would be the answer to this question. Of players you deem to have been screwed over, have any gone on to have success at a higher level or against better high school competition? Real talent usually finds the field unless they do something to shoot themselves in the foot.
yeah last time I heard at college he was starting until an injury to the shoulder . Kid has speed I've seen it everyone has seen it .
Seven D-1 players on the same team isn't loaded... are you high? That is a ton for a 4a school, especially for this area. In fact it is the most I can even think of from any team in this area in the last 20 years. They were ranked nationally when we played them my Junior year. I don't remember exactly what but I remember reading about it all week leading into the game. They were ranked high because they had so many big-time prospects. I never said they were the best Fleming team, I was simply stating that they were one of the really good teams in the area. The best teams we played in the playoffs were also from this area. Liberty and Amherst in the first two rounds were the toughest playoff competitors. Richlands was easier and Harrisonburg was by far the worst in the championship game. We knocked them all over the field and strange circumstances made that a close game.
What is your definition of a loaded with talent 4a team?
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I hope I do if I'm in the woods being chased by bear!
I guess it was too hot for the fair weather Salem fans. Maybe they were enjoying their family vacations before school starts back? And those will probably be the ones who show up bandwagon style and yell stupid things at the coaches and kids because they know it all.
Apparently Chandler Hunt, who played football 3 years ago and has a "friend" that apparently just found out about this website.
Teams loaded with D-1 have well north of double digits on the roster. Now to the team you are talking about calling it 7 D-1's with Georgia Southern and Eastern Michigan in the mix would be considered a stretch by most. That is not to demean the kids or those institutions as playing at the next level is not for everyone whether it be D-1 or D-3. While there are not available archives to definitively disprove your assertion of a national ranking they weren'the better than Top 5 in a lower classification in Virginia which means they at best might have been Top 25 in Virginia. VHSL reference has them at 41 in the state Fyi. Again, they were a good team just not near the level you recollect. Finally, no I am not high but, my perspective is built on playing, coaching and watching high school football across the state of Virginia and the southeastern US for over 50 years.
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