Shocked

[Hampton Roads 6]

Re: Fullbacks just don't get much recognition anymore.


Fullbacks and to some extent, tight ends are a position of "the past".

Spread the field with 4 WRs and 1 RB, and throw it downfield.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

I think you're being a little too condescending to the North.

There have been some GREAT division 4 champs, that could have played with anyone at any division most years.

Briar Woods, Amherst and Broad Run anyone? Remember Stone Bridge arrived from 4A and almost immediately won a 5A title and had some real wars with Phoebus when nobody else could. Yeah, some of those have moved up, but there's more schools being built where those are. You start taking Loudoun, Roanoke and Lynchburg area football as an easy win and you will get your butts handed to you.

 

[pcken]

Re: I guess it's kinda like..

He's been nominated several times. I just don't know what they're thinking.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

You are dead on on the playoff confusion. But remember, it's not directly the VHSL. It's the "hands off, decide for yourselves" freedom that the VHSL gives the conferences, regions, and divisions, that lead to the confusion. If you demand that the VHSL set the playoffs up as an administrative directive, you would have mutiny on your hands. So what's the answer?

 

[DEVILSLB99]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

Condescending? No way just stating what some people are acting like they are too blind to see.
Briar Woods and Broad Run are examples of 5a teams that were placed in 4a under the old system and had a population boom. When Briar Woods won their last title in 2012 I remember talking about how Briar Woods had more students than both the D5 (Lake Taylor) and 6a (LC Bird) champion yet were playing in D4. Same thing with Broad Run sure they have been a solid program since they were forced up, but have they had any success like they had when they were running all through D4? Stone Bridge was D4 when the school first opened up and did the same thing took advantage of their situation and then got bumped up to D5. Now they have kept it going, but to sit and say they could have played with anyone in the division is just your opinion because it can't happen so its a great point to make to prove your point. Look at Rod's old post about where these D4 powers were ranked as compared to some of the other teams that didn't even make it out of the old Eastern Region.
Which Champion was better:
1998: D4 Salem 14-0 D5 Hampton 13-1
1999: D4 Salem 14-0 D5 Culpeper 14-0
2000: D4 Salem 10-4 D5 Heritage 14-0
2001: D4 Lafayette 11-2 D5 Phoebus 13-1
2002: D4 Heritage 13-1 D5 Phoebus 14-0
2003: D4 Powhatan 14-0 D5 Hopewell 13-1
2004: D4 Salem 13-1 D5 Meadowbrook 13-1
2005: D4 Salem 14-0 D5 Hampton 13-1
2006: D4 Amherst 13-1 D5 Phoebus 13-1
2007: D4 Amherst 14-0 D5 Stone Bridge 14-1
2008: D4 Broad Run 14-0 D5 Phoebus 15-0
2009: D4 Broad Run 14-0 D5 Phoebus 15-0
2010: D4 Briar Woods 13-2 D5 Phoebus 15-0
2011: D4 Briar Woods 14-1 D5 Phoebus 13-2
2012: D4 Briar Woods 15-0 D5 Lake Taylor 15-0

Out of all those years the D4 champion has NEVER been looked at by VHSL Reference as being the better team. It wasn't until this year with LT finishing (3) that the D4 champion is rated higher than the D5 champion with Dinwiddie (2013) and Briar Woods (2012) as the only 2 to even crack the top 10. Although games are played on the field I'm a numbers guy like you and these are as clear cut as they get. I don't see a D4 team that was better than the D5 team on this list and there were some good teams, but when they reclassified a whole different animal came down that many of these schools weren't used to seeing and its shown the last 2 Decembers.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

My feelings on a few of the comments above.

Thanks HR6. I try to put a lot of thought into what I post. I'm probably wrong most of the time, but at least I think before I type.

I don't think that any team can honestly use the cost of travel as an excuse for not scheduling desirable match ups. Maybe the most financially strapped, but the added expense is not out of the reach of most schools. Certainly not Salem. There are other reasons that most don't want to discuss.

I believe if a kid is a super athelete, I'm speaking of a freak of nature, the scouts will find him. I don't care if he plays for The Peaks of Otter kitchen staff football team. But, for the most part, unless a kid attends a large, highly touted high school, (ie, Ocean Lakes), he needs some help to be found. And the two most important things he needs is a coach with respect and connections, and to be on a team with other standout athletes. And the greatest of these is a respected coach that reaches out to his contacts. Every team has a "best player on the team", even an 0-10 team. It takes a real effort to get a kid seriously looked at.

I agree with Matt. Virtually all coaches have the best interest of the kids in the forefront of the decisions they make. But, when the "other side" is agreeing to vote together to support a certain kid, then the "other, other side" has to do what they can to help their kid. Say anything you want. It's always been this way, and always will be. This is not to say it is a bad thing most of the time, but it is simply the way it is done.

I'm a white guy, and I'm certainly not a bleeding heart liberal. But I'm not blind and cold hearted, nor racist. I was born and raised in Petersburg. And my job and life puts me in Petersburg almost daily. I see what Devils see's. What the most of us rarely think about, and take for granted, is not even in the realm of reality to most of the kids in these inner city schools. And to be clear here, I'm only speaking of the kids. (I loose all sympathy for people when they get out of school and choose to wallow in their own misery). The vast majority of the kids in the Petersburg School System don't have a mother and father to hold them accountable. Hell, few are lucky to have two parents in their life. The homes that many of these kids go home to are so despicable that virtually none of use would even enter without recoiling at the door. If you are raised in a neighbor hood that speaks Russian, guess what, you grow up speaking Russian. The peer pressure, the influences, the behavior, that these kids grow up with is the Russian that they know. Almost without exception, you can't hang the problems these kids endure on the kids themselves.

I don't have the answer. What I do know, as hard as it is sometimes to convince yourself of this fact, it ain't the KID's fault. They are, after all, just kids.
Again, I don't have the answer. But what I do know is the efforts and ideas of the last 50 years have mostly been a failure.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

HR6. That was an example of me not thinking. In no way was I saying that you, or anyone else, does not think before they post. But, that is the way it reads. What I was trying to say is that I, meaning me, try to think about what I want to convey, before I finally hit "post message". Sorry about that. No offense meant at all.

This post was edited on 12/31 12:50 PM by DinwiddieProud

 

[JacksonVT]

The reporter who picks this is a Martinsville native. He know about....

....McGuire. Fox probably got the nod because he's a senior and McGuire is a Junior. If McGuire puts up similar number next season he will get the player of the year.

 

[southbottomU]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

Salem 98 could have played with anyone any level that year. Of course that is only my opinion but that's all anyone can give on this subject. Had the depth, size, and speed (yes even enough speed to deal with tidewater teams) Great kicking game. No weaknesses. Great Defense with size and speed. Dennis Haley was the tailback at 6'2" 210---Would play Linebacker for UVA and later played for the Ravens. Offensive line average 271 and had a 6'1" 250 tight end. This team was not explosive offensively by design---they were more of a grind you into submission team. Only one player went both ways. Gave up 64 points in 14 games. Middle Linebacker was defensive player of the year. Corners were all district and all region, Defensive tackle was first team all state. Right offensive guard first team all state and played at Hampton. Defensive end first team all state--won state 300 m. hurdles and ran track in college. Many of the athletes on that team would join the basketball team after football and go on and win 4a basketball state championship --(I know football and basketball are different but it is a fairly good measure of athletic ability).

 

[DEVILSLB99]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

98 Hampton was the year after Ronald Curry left they lost the first game of the season in like 6 OT's I believe and destroyed everyone else. They were led by Almondo Curry, Marques Hagans, Ray Mann, Johnny Story who was 6'3 200+ RB who wa also a hell of a basketball player. Honestly 98 Hampton was a VERY good team that would go on to win their 4th straight D5 title gonna be hard to convince me on that one and I'm not even from Tidewater I was in HS. They smoked Amherst 35-0 in the state finals that year.

 

[bsmith51]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

I think the overall differences between D4 and D5 are not that great. The 2012 Briar Woods team that won D4 was far better than the 2013 Briar Woods team that made the state championship game in its first year in D5 (and barely lost a team that won the D6 championship the year before). And Tuscarora was the state runner up this year in just its second year in D5 (after never coming close to making the state game in D4). Briar Woods fell off this year but that has much more to do with graduation. BW had a handful of core of young kids that started as Freshman and Sophomores on their first title team in 2010 and got better year after year. After all those kids graduated, BW just was not the same team (although they still have some nice pieces). Same thing with Stone Bridge this year. They lost a lot in graduation (their 2012 and 2013 teams had a lot more athletes). Tuscarora could face a slide this year because they were senior heavy. Bottom line, I don't think you can look to a school's performance when they move up as much of a guide to compare D4 and D5 competition because teams can change drastically year to year.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.

I think the rebellions you guys imagine aren't quite what you imagine. A bunch of pot bellied AD's grumbling because they thing Conference 16 should get only get 2 teams in the cross country regional meet instead of 3 is not exactly "give me liberty or give me death."
This post was edited on 1/4 7:11 PM by GilliamRatings