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Winners and that's directly related to Doug Smith. Credit Appo

lucustookis

VaPreps Varsity
Jul 7, 2007
782
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Bull Island, VA
I knew Lee was talented and good enough to play with Appo and be in the game late, but the moment was slightly to big. Small differences in the game such as some overthrows late with open WR's, etc. But, that's part of the game. When the WR from Appo is open, the QB seizes the momentum and makes the play. Scruggs is special and you DO NOT beat him in a close game. Every time Lee punched (and man, they punched hard) a guy name Scruggs within 1 minute of gametime would do something to take the momentum back. He's done it for 3 years. You have to credit Doug Smith who had a team in the second half that looked totally different. That's due to adjustments at halftime and Doug Smith is your MVP. The differences/adjustments he made at halftime were GREATER than the adjustments that Lee made at halftime, and that was the difference.

Well done Appo on a 3peat and a great run. As for Lee, another vicious football team with tons of firepower and kids that left it all on the field. Lee has a solid coach and is going to be in the Class 2 final four mix year in and year out for a good run. Safe travels back home to all fans.
 
Agree that adjustments at half were a big difference. Didnt understand Lee strategy of giving Appo short field on kickoffs. A kicker who can consistently put it in the ens zone is a big weapon in HS

Wasn't just this game, has been doing it in the games I have seen from Lee
 
The kickoff team gave up a TD in every game when they kicked it deep so they decided to stop kicking it deep

I certainly didn't see them all year, and while I have huge heart and pride in my team, there is a difference in doing that vs Stuarts Draft and Appomattox. You can't give really good teams a short field all game and expect it not to effect you
 
Why kick it to the best/fastest player on the other team and give him a 20 yard running start? Its simply a way to minimize the big play. Risk vs Reward.
 
Interesting info from this season. 2a,3a,4a,5a,6a all had 3 peat champions and 1 a had a back to back champ
 
Why kick it to the best/fastest player on the other team and give him a 20 yard running start? Its simply a way to minimize the big play. Risk vs Reward.

You don't have to kick it to the best player, dont even have to kick it deep, but giving Appomattox a short field all night hurt Lee no doubt about it. Don't know what would have happened had they kicked it deep or deeper
 
Agree with you two. First, kick the ball 20 yds into the stands if insisting on non deep kicks. You come out better than them having it at midfield. Also, Appo is to good. You can't play to "not lose" against a team like Appo, you have to play to "win." You kick it deep and tell your guys to make the tackle, and if Appo runs it back, then they run it back, but giving the ball at midfield every series is worse as you destroy the very momentum you have from a recent score by allowing the opponent to seize some of that momentum. The shirt kicks and offside stuff was ugly and these offside penalties coupled with the short kicks when totalled up, were worth about 7 points being handed to Appo.
 
Do they have a kicker who can put it in the end zone every time? Even in cold weather...?

If not...please explain the reason why you think it's a bad strategy - because the numbers say otherwise and it's HS, not the NFL or college.

If you're kicking it deep, you're likely putting the ball in the hands of the best or second best athlete on the other team with the entire field to defend....and perhaps you have a kicker who has no idea where the ball is going when he kicks it.

We're talking Class 2 football here....Lee's enrollment is 671.

So...now you have to decide whether or not you want to REST your best players or put them on the kickoff team. Otherwise you're kicking the ball into the hands of the best or 2nd best athlete (best/most explosive athletes always return KO's) on the other team with a kicker and a collection of 10 backups and underclassmen running down the field to try and tackle him.

Does Lee onside kick every time?

If so...it's not just about field position. Extra possessions have to factor into the equation as well.

The point is...this isn't the NFL or college. Heck...it's not even large level high school football. I'd love to hear the other side of the argument backed up with something other than hindsight about "field position".

Lee has an intelligent coach and staff...I'm sure they are doing it on more than just a "whim".
 
Field Position Matters. Again, why not kick it out of bounds and where they would start their possession instead if kicking short and allowing the 50. What incentive to kick inbounds? This is the part where I question Lee's staff. Again, no issue or question with not kicking long, but they see practice everyday and have to understand they suck at pooch kicking, so just.kick it out if bounds.

The same situation applies to Appo. They have 11 guys also and when the kicked, it was to Lee's best guy with many backups on the kickoff team just like Lee.

Again, take field position out of it. Think about the momentum Lee has from a score and boom, have of that given away to the opponent the next play at no cost to the opponent. Psychologically, that effects all facets.

Also, if a short kick gives you more possessions, this is an assumption that the opposing team is going to score and you get the ball back quicker. But, if your defense hold's at the 25, you have a longer way to travel, so the field position is a huge part.
 
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Do they have a kicker who can put it in the end zone every time? Even in cold weather...?

If not...please explain the reason why you think it's a bad strategy - because the numbers say otherwise and it's HS, not the NFL or college.

If you're kicking it deep, you're likely putting the ball in the hands of the best or second best athlete on the other team with the entire field to defend....and perhaps you have a kicker who has no idea where the ball is going when he kicks it.

We're talking Class 2 football here....Lee's enrollment is 671.

So...now you have to decide whether or not you want to REST your best players or put them on the kickoff team. Otherwise you're kicking the ball into the hands of the best or 2nd best athlete (best/most explosive athletes always return KO's) on the other team with a kicker and a collection of 10 backups and underclassmen running down the field to try and tackle him.

Does Lee onside kick every time?

If so...it's not just about field position. Extra possessions have to factor into the equation as well.

The point is...this isn't the NFL or college. Heck...it's not even large level high school football. I'd love to hear the other side of the argument backed up with something other than hindsight about "field position".

Lee has an intelligent coach and staff...I'm sure they are doing it on more than just a "whim".

I never once said he wasn't a smart coach, I never said anything disparaging about him. And apparently you haven't seen them play since you asked if they inside kick it every time, resulting in extra possessions. No, they don't inside kick it, they pooch kick it, and still gave up bigger returns, where on average Appomattox started in Lee territory. So when you are going against a good offense, giving them a short field every time. They also looked like they did have some of their better players on kickoff. They also seemed to have a kicker with very good range.

Early in the game, while its not a strategy I would employ, you still have ample time to score whenever you can. But when you take the lead in a game with around 4 minutes to go and make the opposing team go a shorter distance, that would seem to have some correlation.

And while they may have given up big returns early in the season, you improve over the season. The rest of the team did in all areas.

In fact, since you replied I went back and looked, all I did was answered why they did it with they did it every time I seen them and said they gave up a shorter field. I didn't even say whether it was right or wrong
 
I thought the VHSL rule was not optional when the ball is kicked out of bounds. I thought it's 25 yds from where the kick was, and an option for the D to back them up nd make them rekick isn't allowed, if the kick goes at least 10 yds, and it sells out of bounds?.
 
Then I would have kicked onsides kicks. The pooch's were not going far, so I would have done that. Appo was starting near a failed onside kick would have started.
This I agree with. You can also pooch it better than Lee did. Kick it very high and put 5 fast guys to that side so they have to fair catch it at the 35 yard line.
 
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I knew Lee was talented and good enough to play with Appo and be in the game late, but the moment was slightly to big. Small differences in the game such as some overthrows late with open WR's, etc. But, that's part of the game. When the WR from Appo is open, the QB seizes the momentum and makes the play. Scruggs is special and you DO NOT beat him in a close game. Every time Lee punched (and man, they punched hard) a guy name Scruggs within 1 minute of gametime would do something to take the momentum back. He's done it for 3 years. You have to credit Doug Smith who had a team in the second half that looked totally different. That's due to adjustments at halftime and Doug Smith is your MVP. The differences/adjustments he made at halftime were GREATER than the adjustments that Lee made at halftime, and that was the difference.

Well done Appo on a 3peat and a great run. As for Lee, another vicious football team with tons of firepower and kids that left it all on the field. Lee has a solid coach and is going to be in the Class 2 final four mix year in and year out for a good run. Safe travels back home to all fans.

It's crazy to think the moment was too big for Lee because they lost the game. They lost the game because Appomattox scored more points in the end and was a better TEAM. I simply just don't understand people thinking that just because a team has more talent/athletes that means they should win. Riverheads had more talent today, but didn't last week. Lee had more talent that Riverheads last year and got beat by a lot.

You seemed to take some kind of offense last week when people were talking about the size of Poquoson and athletic ability. They played the way they did despite the talent disadvantage.

Not to take anything away from Robert E Lee, because they were the best team in this area, but the game I watched tonight, Appomattox was quite a bit better. Any kind of play is part of the game, but 2 of Lee scores came off of uncharacteristic plays, the muffed punt and the "punt" play.

And to say the moment was too big because the QB missed a couple passes. One, he was dead on most of his passes, and EVERY Quarterback misses throws. So I guess the moment was too big for Tom Brady when he missed Weller in the Super Bowl? He is only the best QB ever, and sure hasn't had moment too big in 5 other Super Bowls.

I think you said all this to make yourself look right about something. It's just like how a lot of your posts have gone. First last year when saying you never start something or call people names, then DO THAT.

Then the ridiculous stuff back and forth in the last week when saying you want the conversation to be about the 2 great teams playing today but keep saying things in the past and making fun of an entire group of people. At least you apologized to me for last year, but because of your fight with what 4 people you insult an entire group of people. And then try to say how good of a person you are.

But congratulations, you said Appomattox would win. You were right.
 
3A didn't have a 3peat nor back to back champ. Blacksburg won 3A last year.
 
that is interesting...but i saw the post on 3A, crazy because there has only been 6 teams in history to 3 peat, but 4 today.
My opinion and only my opinion don’t want anybody to take offense but I think the overall coaching in high is weak and the best coaches rise to the top sure all teams can have good season but most of time it is talent based not coaching to 3 peat you have got to have good coaching and a good program
 
My opinion and only my opinion don’t want anybody to take offense but I think the overall coaching in high is weak and the best coaches rise to the top sure all teams can have good season but most of time it is talent based not coaching to 3 peat you have got to have good coaching and a good program
Not arguing about coaching at all being bad or good. However, Johnny’s and Joe’s have a lot to do with how “good” coaches are considered to be. Some schools have a lot of athletes and many many others do not have that same luxury. I’ve seen guys do wonders at their schools but will never be able to line up athletically vs some schools.
How “great or good” a coach or staff is should never come to rings or titles. Not An even field of talent for all in regards to what each is working with.

With that being said, I would like to congratulate Appo.
 
I was just giving my opinion on why so many 3 peats this year and repeat this year and only 6 in history
 
Congrats to APPO on the 3 peat. Unfortunately for the rest of us success breeds success and generates more interest in the program and kids want to play. Have to agree with the APPO posters that the defense wasn't what it was last year but alsoLee was a much better team than what I expected and gave them a good game. Not sure if the shanked punt that didn't go beyond the LOS was by design but it was a brilliant call and well executed. Appo made a lot of mistakes and was still able to find a way to win. Thought they gave up on the run too soon in the first half but came back to it and made throws when they needed to.
 
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First of all Congrats to Appo on the win. Super fun game to watch. For once I'm not sure Appo was the best team on the field, I thought they were about even. I think Appo had a slight edge in athlets and Lee was better up front in my opinion. Like others I have read on here I scratch my head at the pooch kicks all game. First I can see doing it if your are kicking deep to number 1 and 11. However not only did the pooch it they kicked it right to 11 and 1 all night. Why????? Kick it deep and keep the ball away from thier best athlets. I think Appo started one time all night behind midfield. Simply stupid game plan and I don't care what the excuse is. The two deep guys are not close to being as dangerous but still refused to kick it there. It was just huge in this game, Appo should have scored every possession with field position they had all game. Anyway I wanted to see a good game and I did. I left happy. As I said last week, winning one state game is hard. Two and three is really special.
 
Interesting info from this season. 2a,3a,4a,5a,6a all had 3 peat champions and 1 a had a back to back champ

Correct except for Class 3. Blacksburg moved up from Group 3A (last year) to Class 4 this year and could not repeat. Classes 6, 5, 4 and 2 had 3-peats this year. Had Riverheads converted a two-point try on the final play vs. Galax in '15 it would have been five hat tricks today!
 
Great game to watch. Lee played tough all night. I think Appo really met a mirror image of themselves. Both team were well rounded and evenly matched.

I wondered about Lees choice of midfield kicks all night as well.

Can somebody enlighten me on how a team can punt to themselves? That was a new one for about 99% of the people there.
 
Great game to watch. Lee played tough all night. I think Appo really met a mirror image of themselves. Both team were well rounded and evenly matched.

I wondered about Lees choice of midfield kicks all night as well.

Can somebody enlighten me on how a team can punt to themselves? That was a new one for abour 99% of the people there.

It's a live ball if behind LOS just like a fumble, therefore can pick it up
 
Great game to watch. Lee played tough all night. I think Appo really met a mirror image of themselves. Both team were well rounded and evenly matched.

I wondered about Lees choice of midfield kicks all night as well.

Can somebody enlighten me on how a team can punt to themselves? That was a new one for abour 99% of the people there.
It's the same as a backward pass, if its behind the line of scrimmage it's a live ball. I watched and was wondering why Appo player just watched it and did not pick it up and take to the house for easy score. The kid from Lee made a good play realizing it was a live ball.
 
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