Heritage/John Champe

[mike salem]

Heritage was soundly beaten by Woodgrove 49-7. They won't get a bye and will probably not fare well in the playoffs.

John Champe beat an average Dominion (4-4) team 21-14. Was that just an anomaly or are they weaker than their record would indicate? They beat Woodgrove 20-17 in OT in game 1 so that was a big statement win. This school is so new it's hard to tell how good they are. Other than Woodgrove their schedule hasn't been difficult, especially when compared to last year's Woodgrove schedule for example. Both are Loudoun Co schools, this year the 4A's didn't play the bigger LC schools like in the past. Woodgrove played Tuscarora, Briar Woods, & Broad Run last year which explains why they did so well against Salem in the playoffs- schedule toughened them up. Champe hasn't faced that so we'll see.

They will probably be a Top 4 seed as long as they win out. I expect they'll be undefeated because Heritage looks to be the only potential pothole. Considering how bad Woodgrove beat Heritage, I don't expect Champe to have much trouble with them.

 

[bceagle47]

Champe is further along at this point than Woodgrove was at the same point in the programs history. No better indicator of that than a head to head W. They are not a team ANY team wants to draw in the playoffs and I would not be thinking of the Knights as your typical 4th year school .

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

Heritage was shown to be a pretender in 4A last night getting beat by Woodgrove 49-7.

John Champe beat an average Dominion (4-4) team 21-14. Was that just an anomaly or are they pretenders too? They beat Woodgrove 20-17 OT in game 1 so it's hard to say how they'll matchup against traditional powers in 4A come 2nd or 3rd rd if they make it that far. This school is so new it's hard to tell how good they are. Other than Woodgrove their schedule hasn't been difficult, especially when compared to last year's Woodgrove schedule for example. Both are Loudoun Co schools, this year the 4A's didn't play the bigger LC schools like in the past. Woodgrove played Tuscarora, Briar Woods, & Broad Run last year which explains why they did so well against Salem in the playoffs- schedule toughened them up. Champe hasn't faced that so we'll see.

They will probably be a Top 4 seed as long as they win out. I expect they'll be undefeated because Heritage looks to be the only potential pothole. Considering how bad Woodgrove beat Heritage, I don't expect Champe to have much trouble with them.

I agree 100% Mike. Woogrove looks like the strongest of all 3 teams, but I don't see any of them being apart of the last 4 west teams standing. Woodgrove is pretty good tho. Gave Salem the most trouble last year so you can never sleep on them.

 

[schoolboard]

If you are going to disparage Champe for only beating Dominion by 7, then you better do the same to Sherando for only beating James Wood by 4.

 

[Shruikan]

If you are going to disparage Champe for only beating Dominion by 7, then you better do the same to Sherando for only beating James Wood by 4.

Well from what I've heard, Sherando had 5 starting lineman out for that game. Point taken though. It'd be a massive shame if Bishop was out for the season, even with Wood's dwindling playoff hopes. Great talent.

Could see Sherando losing to Fort Hill and Millbrook if they played like they did that night.

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

Personally I haven't been sold on Sherando nor any of those Loudoun County teams from what I've seen on Hudl.

 

[Tom Potter]

Heritage & Champe should be good game. Both teams have some guys going both ways. It will come down to converted turnovers IMHO.
As a member of Woodgrove Nation I will be pulling for Heritage. I was shocked they played so poorly last night.

Heritage and Woodgrove did not appear to have any injuries last night.

Go Pride, beat the Knights Friday night!

Hopefully Millbrook will beat Sherando at the end of the season as well!

 

[mike salem]

If you are going to disparage Champe for only beating Dominion by 7, then you better do the same to Sherando for only beating James Wood by 4.

I'm not trying to disparage them. Sherando is a proven entity. I wouldn't normally compare scores to draw conclusions, but Champe is so new there's not much else to go on yet. I'm not saying they are weak, they will just have to prove it come playoff time.

 

[shauntclair]

Heritage was shown to be a pretender in 4A last night getting beat by Woodgrove 49-7.

John Champe beat an average Dominion (4-4) team 21-14. Was that just an anomaly or are they pretenders too? They beat Woodgrove 20-17 OT in game 1 so it's hard to say how they'll matchup against traditional powers in 4A come 2nd or 3rd rd if they make it that far. This school is so new it's hard to tell how good they are. Other than Woodgrove their schedule hasn't been difficult, especially when compared to last year's Woodgrove schedule for example. Both are Loudoun Co schools, this year the 4A's didn't play the bigger LC schools like in the past. Woodgrove played Tuscarora, Briar Woods, & Broad Run last year which explains why they did so well against Salem in the playoffs- schedule toughened them up. Champe hasn't faced that so we'll see.

They will probably be a Top 4 seed as long as they win out. I expect they'll be undefeated because Heritage looks to be the only potential pothole. Considering how bad Woodgrove beat Heritage, I don't expect Champe to have much trouble with them.

Numbers support you Mike but do not underestimate the LC teams. They really are good and play in one of the toughest areas of the State.

Now, I have to say, no one has taken care of business in the West this year like Salem. The schedule isn't hard but they put the beat down on all comers. Never threatened. That does say a lot. Still, if Sherando, JF and John Champe win out (and they probably will), Sherandos schedule will put them behind all in the rankings. It may be a tougher road than usual for the Spartans but at least they'll get a 1st round by and a home game. GL. Just make sure you beat Brookville or you may get no home game at all.

 

[schoolboard]

I'm not trying to disparage them. Sherando is a proven entity. I wouldn't normally compare scores to draw conclusions, but Champe is so new there's not much else to go on yet. I'm not saying they are weak, they will just have to prove it come playoff time.

So we are ranking teams effectiveness this year on their reputations from previous years. Good to know.

 

[schoolboard]

Numbers support you Mike but do not underestimate the LC teams. They really are good and play in one of the toughest areas of the State.

Now, I have to say, no one has taken care of business in the West this year like Salem. The schedule isn't hard but they put the beat down on all comers. Never threatened. That does say a lot. Still, if Sherando, JF and John Champe win out (and they probably will), Sherandos schedule will put them behind all in the rankings. It may be a tougher road than usual for the Spartans but at least they'll get a 1st round by and a home game. GL. Just make sure you beat Brookville or you may get no home game at all.

I will be picking Millbrook over Sherando in the pick-em. I may not be right, but I think that is a 50-50 game.

 

[mike salem]

So we are ranking teams effectiveness this year on their reputations from previous years. Good to know.

It's not reputation, it's years of proven success. I combine that with what they have done this year to try and figure out who is likely to do well come playoff time. Since Champe is so new what they have done on the field this year is really all we have to go on. They have not played a traditionally tough Loudoun Co schedule like Woodgrove did the last few years. I'm not saying Champe is weak, I think it remains to be seen. Woodgrove was in the same boat just a couple of years ago and they have proven they belong in the discussion of strong teams in the West. The fact that Champe beat Woodgrove first game of the year tells me they must be pretty strong. The fact they only beat Dominion, an average team, by 7 gives me pause. Either one of those games could be an anomaly, the question is which one. This is all just speculation and a discussion I started to see what other people think of Champe. (Preferably from some people who have seen them this year) I think they will be undefeated and will get a bye first round and then we'll see how good they are. I was not trying to disparage Champe, just trying to stimulate some discussion about a team that I know nothing about.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

It's not reputation, it's years of proven success. I combine that with what they have done this year to try and figure out who is likely to do well come playoff time. Since Champe is so new what they have done on the field this year is really all we have to go on. They have not played a traditionally tough Loudoun Co schedule like Woodgrove did the last few years. I'm not saying Champe is weak, I think it remains to be seen. Woodgrove was in the same boat just a couple of years ago and they have proven they belong in the discussion of strong teams in the West. The fact that Champe beat Woodgrove first game of the year tells me they must be pretty strong. The fact they only beat Dominion, an average team, by 7 gives me pause. Either one of those games could be an anomaly, the question is which one. This is all just speculation and a discussion I started to see what other people think of Champe. (Preferably from some people who have seen them this year) I think they will be undefeated and will get a bye first round and then we'll see how good they are. I was not trying to disparage Champe, just trying to stimulate some discussion about a team that I know nothing about.

I tried warning people that Dominion would be a tough game for Champe in my predictions article. Styles make fights...

John Champe at Dominion

The Knights have quickly become a team to keep a close eye on in the 4A West region as they sprinted out of the gate winning their first six games, five of them by 22 or more points. They've impressed on both sides of the ball scoring 40 or more in four straight and allowing only 44 points on the year. They may find themselves in some heat in this game though as the Titans have topped them in all three meetings between the two schools including last season's 28-27 victory. Dominion had some offensive woes earlier in the season but seem to have righted the ship some by scoring 90 points in their last two games. Still, Champe has been near-perfect this season and should pull away at some point in this one...John Champe 28, Dominion 14

 

[mike salem]

Numbers support you Mike but do not underestimate the LC teams. They really are good and play in one of the toughest areas of the State.

Now, I have to say, no one has taken care of business in the West this year like Salem. The schedule isn't hard but they put the beat down on all comers. Never threatened. That does say a lot. Still, if Sherando, JF and John Champe win out (and they probably will), Sherandos schedule will put them behind all in the rankings. It may be a tougher road than usual for the Spartans but at least they'll get a 1st round by and a home game. GL. Just make sure you beat Brookville or you may get no home game at all.

Salem doesn't play Brookville this year, I think you're talking about JF here. Salem does have PH this week which should be a good test. Salem finishes the season with Pulaski and I think both teams will be undefeated coming into that game. Salem really hasn't been tested this year so far. William Byrd and Northside have pretty good teams this year and the Spartans did very well against both.

PH played a wonderful game against JF earlier this year with the Cavaliers pulling it out in the end 41-35. It will be interesting this week to see if the Spartans can play better defense than JF did and contain a very good QB in Quishon Calfee who can beat you with his arm or his legs. He's one of the best QB's I have seen at the high school level.

In the finale it will be a matchup of 2 likely undefeated teams. Beyond that these 2 teams are big rivals. Salem has beaten them the last 6 matchups so Pulaski will be especially keyed up for this game.

 

[mike salem]

Numbers support you Mike but do not underestimate the LC teams. They really are good and play in one of the toughest areas of the State.

Now, I have to say, no one has taken care of business in the West this year like Salem. The schedule isn't hard but they put the beat down on all comers. Never threatened. That does say a lot. Still, if Sherando, JF and John Champe win out (and they probably will), Sherandos schedule will put them behind all in the rankings. It may be a tougher road than usual for the Spartans but at least they'll get a 1st round by and a home game. GL. Just make sure you beat Brookville or you may get no home game at all.

I know those Loudoun Co schools are not to be overlooked. In 4A Briar Woods, Broad Run, Woodgrove have had or will have great success. In particular Woodgrove from last year played an extremely tough schedule facing BW, BR, & Tuscarora which definitely prepared them well for Salem & nearly pulled the upset.

Champe seems to fit the Loudoun Co mold, but a change in LC policy regarding intra-county scheduling had Champe facing only 3/4A LC schools rather than the brutal Woodgrove schedule from last year. The 3/4A LC schools are not anywhere near as tough as playing BR, BW, Tuscarora, Stone Bridge, etc... That's not to say Champe won't do well when they get challenged in the playoffs, it remains to be seen. There is no history to go by so we'll see how they do. They should get a bye first round.

 

[schoolboard]

Well, we saw Dominion in a scrimmage, and I think it is unfair to call them "average." And I saw Champe in the regular season. But you know what? It is fair to blast Brentsville for past reputation and weak early schedule this year. But don't discount Millbrook because they have not done much in the past. And all of Handley's proven success does not mean squat this year, now does it.

 

[mike salem]

Well, we saw Dominion in a scrimmage, and I think it is unfair to call them "average." And I saw Champe in the regular season. But you know what? It is fair to blast Brentsville for past reputation and weak early schedule this year. But don't discount Millbrook because they have not done much in the past. And all of Handley's proven success does not mean squat this year, now does it.

My only point was when trying to evaluate a team you know nothing about there are 2 ways to look at it. Past performance and current performance vs the competition. Then you try to weigh past performance and current performance to predict potential. Just because Salem has been successful for 30+ years doesn't mean anything for this year, but when you combine that with current performance it's easy to see that Salem should be a major player in the West. Champe is such a new school they don't have a playoff history to look at. Their current performance looks good being undefeated with one of those wins being against a proven commodity in Woodgrove. I think other than that game their schedule hasn't been a real test. I think they'll be undefeated regular season, get a bye, and then we'll see where they stand after that. I said similar things about Woodgrove the first yr Salem played them. Last year they showed they belong in the discussion for the West. Now in the next few weeks we'll see if Champe belongs in the discussion. They may very well be the best in the West or they may get bounced in the 2nd Rd after a presumed 1st round bye which may or may not happen.

I haven't seen Dominion play this year, describing them as average is based on them being 4-4 this year and only having one winning season (7-5 in '13) since opening in '03.
With Millbrook and Handley you have to evaluate based on past and current performance to predict potential, not just one or the other. I don't think I'm saying anything controversial here, I believe we all weigh past and current performance to try and predict potential of teams we're not familiar with.

 

[shauntclair]

I can see your point Mike and would have to agree with it but need to throw in the caveat that Briar Woods was only 4 years old and went 4 - 6 the year before they ran off 3 straight State Championships. Just saying.

 

[mike salem]

I can see your point Mike and would have to agree with it but need to throw in the caveat that Briar Woods was only 4 years old and went 4 - 6 the year before they ran off 3 straight State Championships. Just saying.

I agree, they don't have the history so they're unpredictable, Bounced 1st/2nd Rd? State Champions? We'll see in the coming weeks.

 

[schoolboard]

Maybe I should just start talking about teams in the Salem area that I have zero knowledge of and see your reaction. My guess is there would be a 3 page manifesto about how wrong I am.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

Maybe I should just start talking about teams in the Salem area that I have zero knowledge of and see your reaction. My guess is there would be a 3 page manifesto about how wrong I am.

I don't think that it is contentious at all of Mike to opine that Champe is an unpredictable x-factor in the 4A West bracket.

He is generally one of the most level-headed posters on the boards and is not one to try to stir the pot.

 

[mike salem]

Maybe I should just start talking about teams in the Salem area that I have zero knowledge of and see your reaction. My guess is there would be a 3 page manifesto about how wrong I am.

Not really sure what I said that was controversial or offended you, I apologize.

A lot of people post on these forums about teams they know nothing about. I admitted I didn't know much of anything about Champe, just said they will be unpredictable because they are a young school with little history. They may win the 4A championship this year or they may get bounced early, who knows? They will probably be undefeated, get a bye first round, and then we'll see what happens. That's all I meant.

 

[mike salem]

Personally I haven't been sold on Sherando nor any of those Loudoun County teams from what I've seen on Hudl.

I think Sherando and Woodgrove are definite contenders for Top 4 in the West. Champe may be too, but we'll see. Heritage getting hammered by Woodgrove takes them out of contention in my mind.

 

[schoolboard]

I don't think that it is contentious at all of Mike to opine that Champe is an unpredictable x-factor in the 4A West bracket.

He is generally one of the most level-headed posters on the boards and is not one to try to stir the pot.

He also opined about their schedule being weak because Broad Run isn't on it. Where's the Broad Run type of school on Salem's schedule? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

He also opined about their schedule being weak because Broad Run isn't on it. Where's the Broad Run type of school on Salem's schedule? I'll hang up and listen.

If you think that Champe has strong schedule, why not debate his point and show your evidence? Maybe link to this page http://www.vhsl-reference.com/ratingsmainpage_gy.cfm?GY=2015&DIVISION=4 and have people note that the SOS for Champe is not significantly different from several other top teams in 4A.

Of course, that still leaves you in a pickle vis-a-vis the history of the two programs and their successes.

Bottom line is that Mike's thoughts that he "isn't sure if Champe is going to do well or not in the postseason" is hardly inflammatory.

 

[mike salem]

He also opined about their schedule being weak because Broad Run isn't on it. Where's the Broad Run type of school on Salem's schedule? I'll hang up and listen.

Salem's schedule thus far has been about equal with Champe's. Salem has 30 years of proven success, Champe has been in existence for 4 years with 2 winning seasons. So me saying Champe is unpredictable and I'm not sure how they'll do in the playoffs is controversial how?

 

[schoolboard]

You said a whole lot more than just that they are unpredictable. If that is all you had said, I would not have jumped in on Champe's behalf. I never asked you to compare Salem's schedule to Champe, I said compare it to one that has Broad Run on it, which is what you were calling out Champe for not having. John Champe has already beat 3 teams that are ranked higher in the Gilliam Ratings than Pulaski.

On a side note, I really can't stand John Champe. It pains me to defend them. I hope they lose this week and all subsequent weeks. In every sport. On the other hand, I got a chance to hear Salem's principal speak to a group of teachers in our county and I was very impressed with him. If you do get the chance to play John Champe in the postseason, I hope you beat them by 40.

 

[mike salem]

You said a whole lot more than just that they are unpredictable. If that is all you had said, I would not have jumped in on Champe's behalf. I never asked you to compare Salem's schedule to Champe, I said compare it to one that has Broad Run on it, which is what you were calling out Champe for not having. John Champe has already beat 3 teams that are ranked higher in the Gilliam Ratings than Pulaski.

On a side note, I really can't stand John Champe. It pains me to defend them. I hope they lose this week and all subsequent weeks. In every sport. On the other hand, I got a chance to hear Salem's principal speak to a group of teachers in our county and I was very impressed with him. If you do get the chance to play John Champe in the postseason, I hope you beat them by 40.

The only reason I brought up Broad Run in relation to scheduling is because Woodgrove played them last year along with Briar Woods and Tuscarora. That schedule prepared them very well for the postseason and they nearly upset Salem last year. Shauntclair had said something to the effect that the NOVA schools play tough schedules. This year BR, BW, & Tuscarora are playing the bigger Loudoun and Prince William schools not the 4A LC schools. Not trying to insult Champe's schedule (many have criticized Salem's schedule, so I should have worded things differently) Just saying they have only been a school 4 years and we don't know what to expect from them. As Shauntclair said Briar Woods was only a school 4 years when they won 3 titles in a row after going 4-6 in year 3.

I hope if given the opportunity, Salem will beat them handily as well. Hopefully Salem gets the top seed so I can see it.

 

[Tom Potter]

First off, kudos to Champe for beating Woodgrove that first week of season.

I was at the game and Woodgrove let Champe stick around with turnovers and a ton of offensive penalties in the red zone. I wish we had kicked a few FGs instead of going for TDs on 4th and goal from 10-20 yards from end zone at least twice and possibly three times. Oh well, that's why they play the game!

Champe has come far fast and got to the second round of 3A playoffs last year.

IMHO, Champe has too many guys playing both sides of the ball to make a deep run in playoffs.

I will always pull for LoCo teams and I wish Champe well in the playoffs.
Woe betide them if Woodgrove gets another crack at them in playoffs.

I think The Champe vs. Heritage game will be the best in LoCo Friday night.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

I think The Champe vs. Heritage game will be the best in LoCo Friday night.

Hmmmmm, can't say that I agree with you on that part as Stone Bridge will be playing at Tuscarora.

Incredibly, it will be the first time that Burnett vs Thompson happens

 

[Tom Potter]

While Stone Bridge beating Broad Run was a surprise to me; I think Tuscorora takes care of business easily.

Perhaps Stone Bridge is peaking late?

That will be good game though; agreed!

 

[shauntclair]

First off, kudos to Champe for beating Woodgrove that first week of season.

I was at the game and Woodgrove let Champe stick around with turnovers and a ton of offensive penalties in the red zone. I wish we had kicked a few FGs instead of going for TDs on 4th and goal from 10-20 yards from end zone at least twice and possibly three times. Oh well, that's why they play the game!

Champe has come far fast and got to the second round of 3A playoffs last year.

IMHO, Champe has too many guys playing both sides of the ball to make a deep run in playoffs.

I will always pull for LoCo teams and I wish Champe well in the playoffs.
Woe betide them if Woodgrove gets another crack at them in playoffs.

I think The Champe vs. Heritage game will be the best in LoCo Friday night.

You know, I've heard this from many other posts and teams. Too many guys going both ways. But that's the way HS Football has become. That is also an extreme benefit for a team like Salem. They have a bunch on the sideline just teething at the bit for a chance and many of these "2nds" are good enough to start for most teams. The Spartans graduated 22 Seniors last year. They haven't missed a beat. Most 4A's put out 35 - 40. Salem throws out close to 90. Double the depth of almost anyone. When a key player goes out for a smaller team, it's a major blow and injuries happen every week. Luck is involved. Spartans just throw in another cog and it works. Significant advantage for them in the long haul.

Yes, Champe vs Heritage is GOW stuff.

 

[mike salem]

You know, I've heard this from many other posts and teams. Too many guys going both ways. But that's the way HS Football has become. That is also an extreme benefit for a team like Salem. They have a bunch on the sideline just teething at the bit for a chance and many of these "2nds" are good enough to start for most teams. The Spartans graduated 22 Seniors last year. They haven't missed a beat. Most 4A's put out 35 - 40. Salem throws out close to 90. Double the depth of almost anyone. When a key player goes out for a smaller team, it's a major blow and injuries happen every week. Luck is involved. Spartans just throw in another cog and it works. Significant advantage for them in the long haul.

Yes, Champe vs Heritage is GOW stuff.

The 90 man roster for Salem is Varsity & JV. Once the playoffs start Salem generally brings about 48-52 to the game. Usually close to 10 JV guys join the Varsity once the JV season is finished.

 

[Tom Potter]

Woodgrove (& Loudoun Valley to a lesser extent, if they make playoffs) are probably the only LoCo 4As that will make the playoffs with that same sort of deeper bench / larger team. There is a dropoff in size or skill or speed with the second string guys but they give it their all when given the chance as well.

Woodgrove also will add upwards of 10 additional players from the JV team, which is composed of mostly sophomores, when playoffs begin.

Sadly Football is not as popular as it once was due to the hysteria, IMHO, over the concussion / brain trauma issue among other things. Some LoCo schools don't have freshman teams and others do not have JV teams due to the decline in lads playing the game.

 

[mike salem]

Woodgrove (& Loudoun Valley to a lesser extent, if they make playoffs) are probably the only LoCo 4As that will make the playoffs with that same sort of deeper bench / larger team. There is a dropoff in size or skill or speed with the second string guys but they give it their all when given the chance as well.

Woodgrove also will add upwards of 10 additional players from the JV team, which is composed of mostly sophomores, when playoffs begin.

Sadly Football is not as popular as it once was due to the hysteria, IMHO, over the concussion / brain trauma issue among other things. Some LoCo schools don't have freshman teams and others do not have JV teams due to the decline in lads playing the game.

Woodgrove is a very talented team and they look the part of those awesome Loudoun Co schools especially in and around Ashburn- Stone Bridge, Broad Run, Briar Woods, Tuscarora, etc... John Champe may turn out to be in the same category. I haven't seen them yet, but Woodgrove sure was impressive last year.

 

[shauntclair]

The 90 man roster for Salem is Varsity & JV. Once the playoffs start Salem generally brings about 48-52 to the game. Usually close to 10 JV guys join the Varsity once the JV season is finished.

Thanks Mike. So exactly how many to Salem actually bring to the field during the regular season of Varsity Football?

 

[mike salem]

Thanks Mike. So exactly how many to Salem actually bring to the field during the regular season of Varsity Football?

Usually around 45. A couple from JV usually suit up when they've only played 2Q Thursday night. Right now there are about 5 or 6 injured players on Varsity so there may be 5 JV guys suiting up. I counted 44 players for the last game with Christiansburg.