2014 was the year the cycle goes by, they haven't reassessed again til 2017 so all schools will have same number 2014 15 16. the Fort same way 473
I Know One thing for sure Riverheads better not get up here talking about they got 474 students
- Thread starter woodlayer#952002
- Start date
Put your kid in private school where everyone gets a trophy !
I think the object of cheating is NOT for people to find out. If you mark off 7 yards for a 10 yard penalty. People would see that. Do you understand how cheating is conducted now?
I'm good, I get a thrill out of watching him and his team of 14 kids beat teams with 40. May never win a title, but he knows life is not fair.
I do my own mock reclassification and realignment every year for fun. The numbers I have for Riverheads differ from Pioneers'. Mine are less suspicious:
2012 494
2013 494
2014 494
2015 475
2016 474
My question is this: Did the cutoff move from 500 students to 475 in 2014? If they are estimating the Beverly Manor Middle freshman class split, it would be awfully easy to deliberately keep Riverheads 1A and count the excess students for Buffalo Gap, keeping them in 2A. It's shady, but it would be difficult to prove they are cheating. To be honest, it's more a matter of gaming the system than outright cheating.
This might explain a question that has always bugged me. When I moved to Staunton in 2014, I had heard that Buffalo Gap was expected to drop to 1A and Riverheads was to remain in 2A. The opposite happened.
2012 494
2013 494
2014 494
2015 475
2016 474
My question is this: Did the cutoff move from 500 students to 475 in 2014? If they are estimating the Beverly Manor Middle freshman class split, it would be awfully easy to deliberately keep Riverheads 1A and count the excess students for Buffalo Gap, keeping them in 2A. It's shady, but it would be difficult to prove they are cheating. To be honest, it's more a matter of gaming the system than outright cheating.
This might explain a question that has always bugged me. When I moved to Staunton in 2014, I had heard that Buffalo Gap was expected to drop to 1A and Riverheads was to remain in 2A. The opposite happened.
News flash. Football is 11 on 11. Do you understand football now. 11 vs 11, not 14 vs 40. You good now?
(Note - My years of stuff is on my old laptop, which bit the dust in August, so I'm doing this from memory. If I mess up somewhere, jump in with a correction.)
First, and foremost, the VHSL and ADM "aren't related by blood, but by marriage".
ADM is a state Dept. of Ed. thing that is used to determine school funding. Schools that "fudge" to get a lower ADM are losing a few thousand $$$ per kid by doing so.
(I've been told by a couple of ppl. that a HS down this way did some fudging back in 80s or 90s to stay where they were - a move up would have added A LOT to their sports travel expenses.)
The "number of students" that show up on a Wiki or a school's home page can come from anywhere and doesn't mean anything when it comes to funding or alignment.
(A LOT of ppl. down this way have problems with Gate City - their student numbers are always WAY lower than the ADM. Ppl. don't realize the physical GCHS only has grades 10-12 there.)
Va. does ADMs twice per year - Sept. 30 to get an idea of how of how funding will be dispersed, and March 31 to get the actual number for funding.
So, saying their ADM was X in 2014 and Y in 2015 doesn't mean jack squat unless you know which date you're talking about. Here's why...
The ADM for Fall 2014 will be just a tad higher than Spring 2015 almost all of the time, due to dropouts outnumbering new transfers during the school year.
The ADM for Spring 2014 and Fall 2015 should be quite different as TWO graduating classes have been replaced.
I went back and got the alignment info that has the ADMs for March 31 in 2012, 14 & 16
(Any other ADMs mean diddly-squat when it comes to VHSL alignment.)
BG - 557, 530, 509
FD - 801, 797, 806
Rh - 494, 475, 474
SD - 769, 728, 707
WM - 707, 741, 733
Historical Fall numbers can be found here, if you want to kill a couple of hours -
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/enrollment/fall_membership/report_data.shtml
As for the student-teacher ratio - lots of things can play into that. Maybe they were budget-strung a while back and aren't so much now. Maybe they list a teacher who is only there half a day and at another HS the other half. Maybe they added something.
okay - that's all. Carry on.
First, and foremost, the VHSL and ADM "aren't related by blood, but by marriage".
ADM is a state Dept. of Ed. thing that is used to determine school funding. Schools that "fudge" to get a lower ADM are losing a few thousand $$$ per kid by doing so.
(I've been told by a couple of ppl. that a HS down this way did some fudging back in 80s or 90s to stay where they were - a move up would have added A LOT to their sports travel expenses.)
The "number of students" that show up on a Wiki or a school's home page can come from anywhere and doesn't mean anything when it comes to funding or alignment.
(A LOT of ppl. down this way have problems with Gate City - their student numbers are always WAY lower than the ADM. Ppl. don't realize the physical GCHS only has grades 10-12 there.)
Va. does ADMs twice per year - Sept. 30 to get an idea of how of how funding will be dispersed, and March 31 to get the actual number for funding.
So, saying their ADM was X in 2014 and Y in 2015 doesn't mean jack squat unless you know which date you're talking about. Here's why...
The ADM for Fall 2014 will be just a tad higher than Spring 2015 almost all of the time, due to dropouts outnumbering new transfers during the school year.
The ADM for Spring 2014 and Fall 2015 should be quite different as TWO graduating classes have been replaced.
I went back and got the alignment info that has the ADMs for March 31 in 2012, 14 & 16
(Any other ADMs mean diddly-squat when it comes to VHSL alignment.)
BG - 557, 530, 509
FD - 801, 797, 806
Rh - 494, 475, 474
SD - 769, 728, 707
WM - 707, 741, 733
Historical Fall numbers can be found here, if you want to kill a couple of hours -
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/enrollment/fall_membership/report_data.shtml
As for the student-teacher ratio - lots of things can play into that. Maybe they were budget-strung a while back and aren't so much now. Maybe they list a teacher who is only there half a day and at another HS the other half. Maybe they added something.
okay - that's all. Carry on.
DING DING DING
We have signs of intelligent life on the boards......
We have signs of intelligent life on the boards......
I don't mind that you use the numbers from March for those years, what I want to see is the number from Sept of '14 and March of '15. They will tell use the whole story. The numbers you provide tell us that one class may be bigger than the one before it (looks like SD had a class that was 40+ students bigger than another), there isn't much to that to me, just data.
I would love to see the data difference between the fall and spring for the fact that, we can see what the true issue is. Do you have the fall vs spring numbers? In these small schools if the numbers are differentiating by 10-15 kids then that's alarming that a school would have that high of a dropout rate. Also, it's more than likely all coming from the Senior class due to truancy laws. So if it's a variable of 10 then that's an 8% dropout rate (if all the classes were 118 kids each, 474/4=118.5). That would be something alarming because I think I read somewhere that the National Dropout rate is around 6%.
The whole student/teacher ratio is just odd to me. I know Virginia's Education spending has nearly dropped 20% from around 2008 until 2016 when factoring in inflation. I don't know how they can afford to hire more staff with "dwindling" student bodies.
So....can you point me into the direction of the number that the school gets in Sept vs the number the school gets in March? Also, does the school get to pick which number they would want to use? Is it an average?
Thanks for the help.
I would love to see the data difference between the fall and spring for the fact that, we can see what the true issue is. Do you have the fall vs spring numbers? In these small schools if the numbers are differentiating by 10-15 kids then that's alarming that a school would have that high of a dropout rate. Also, it's more than likely all coming from the Senior class due to truancy laws. So if it's a variable of 10 then that's an 8% dropout rate (if all the classes were 118 kids each, 474/4=118.5). That would be something alarming because I think I read somewhere that the National Dropout rate is around 6%.
The whole student/teacher ratio is just odd to me. I know Virginia's Education spending has nearly dropped 20% from around 2008 until 2016 when factoring in inflation. I don't know how they can afford to hire more staff with "dwindling" student bodies.
So....can you point me into the direction of the number that the school gets in Sept vs the number the school gets in March? Also, does the school get to pick which number they would want to use? Is it an average?
Thanks for the help.
Last edited:
My guess is you know nothing of the geographic location of Riverheads and where those kids live , Wilson M. and where those kids live and S.D. , B.G. Fort D. & so on . AUGUSTA CO. is growing in some areas and the Riverheads district has little growth . You can not compare one to the other . Those farm boys love RED PRIDE Football . See you next year in Salem !
Like I said, I don't have access to my older stuff right now. You can use my March of 16 # and find the Sept. of 15 on the link.
I wouldn't go so far as to determine a dropout rate using those numbers, though. Things aren't like they were back in the day. Thanks to block scheduling, some HS kids now graduate in Dec. I've read that some footballers go to summer school & get out in Dec., then start college in Jan. so they can get "into" things faster - playbook, weight room, etc.
Also, the VHSL "excludes" some students (I don't know which ones [maybe the LD kids?] - Sherando had 11 "excluded"), so comparing the VHSL #s to the DoE #s won't give a "true" view.
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2016/...-4a-northwestern-district-adding-eight-teams/
S/T ratio - You never know. I know of a SW county that added personnel over the past few years while numbers were dropping because "the Super. wanted his/her friends on the payroll". The Super. got tossed because s/he had put the school system in a hole, and some ppl. weren't rehired by the new Super.
does the school get to pick which number they would want to use?
No.
The board of supervisors in augusta county is only letting new growth happen on the east end of the county Wilson and SD districts and the north end FD district. Plus with the closing of one of FD elementary schools and the District lines being drawn again to send the mass majority of those kids to Wilson with a few going to BG. Wilson just had expansion on both of its elementary schools to house 800 each and they are trying to fill them.
