Phoebus is completely dominating Heritage…

[fattyhawk2013]

When I went to Phoebus I remember a 70 point beat down our team suffered. At one point there was only 12 players on varsity. Bill Dee worked magic at Phoebus. 4 titles in 8 years? I still remember when we finally beat the Hampton Crabbers.

Lafayette has around 1160. Why is Phoebus going to class 4?

You know why...lol They hope Phoebus lose...

Lafayette, If you find out why Phoebus is moving up let me know. I have a question for you. Do you remember any prediction that was made after the 1st week of the 2001 Peninsula District season?

I didnt realize

Hmmm..... @Lafayette did you just snitch on your Rams? The VHSL numbers say you have 860. Is someone in Williamsburg falsely reporting enrollment numbers? Just kidding. I think your calculations may be off sir. These numbers constantly fluctuate and can be very frustrating. I don't like all the constant movement, nor do I like someone being well over the cap and still allowed to play down for two years. The VHSL approved the 23-24 realignment based on March 22 - June 2022 numbers. If you look at the numbers now many schools are well over the cap and we haven't even started the cycle. I just don't have an answer other than to possibly allow schools to project enrollment and to punish them if there is a significant increase during the two year period. Seems crazy, but I will give you this example. Phoebus played in Class 3 with 1,011 while Dinwiddie played in Class 4 with 960. I realize the numbers changed from the original forecast in 2021, but you can see my point. @Lafayette if your numbers are correct then your school is way over the cap for Class 3 and has one heck of an advantage.

I didnt realize Dinwiddie had a low enrollment number. Excellent job and talent at that school. I also heard Dinwiddie returns everyone from thier team this year. Wow! If true, thats impressive.

Not sure where you got those numbers, VHSL has Phoebus at 1011 and Heritage at 813 as of June 2022. But congratulations to the Phantoms!

I googled it. Heritage should be a favorite for next year. Hats off to Coach Bradley. He is truly a passionate coach. Much respect and you can tell that he loves his players.

 

[oxley70]

Thank you, LHS. And I agree fully. A lot of folks have different ideas for how to class the schools, but most are not looking at the big picture. Developing a classification system that streamlines one area of the state tends to create monumental problems in another area. Also, it’s not just about football. It’s about ALL VHSL sanctioned activities.

What we have now is by far the best system than I have ever seen for our entire state. And I want to add this. The VHSL catches a lot of criticism from us out here in the peanut gallery. Some of it may be deserved, but most of it is not. A quick example, from my own sister no less. “The VHSL should put railings up at the ends of the concrete bleaches in Hopewell.“ “Don’t they care that some kid can fall 10’ to the concrete below?” Well sis, yes the do. But they have no more authority to force hand rail installation there than they would at your house. “But, but, but….,!“

This is just one of the types of things that the VHSL gets criticized for. The League must shoulder much of the fault for all of the misguided flack. They have done a really poor job of educating the public about their charter and their mission. Also, another VERY important fact. Rules don’t come from the folks at the League headquarters in Charlottesville. THE MEMBER SCHOOLS MAKE THE RULES. The executive Director can make a ruling in emergency situations only, but EVERY rule or change must be voted on and approved ultimately my the 318 member schools.

So, if you want something changed, you have to start by addressing it to your local high school AD and Principal.

Another often misunderstood fact. The school Principal “only” is the official representative to the League. However, the Principal can, and often does, designate his AD as his defacto representative.

I apologize for rambling on.

Don’t apologize. What a great post. Exactly what should go on in these forums. Kudos to you, DP.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Nah, Dinwiddie loses a fair number of starters.

Dinwiddies enrollment, Grades 9-12 is around 1400. Remember, the ADM numbers used is only grades 9-11 now. So the enrollment looks smaller unless you factor in the 12 th grade.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Don’t apologize. What a great post. Exactly what should go on in these forums. Kudos to you, DP.

Thank you sir.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Not saying the bigger schools always have the best teams. What I mean is that there is usually more talent at the lager schools just due to sheer numbers.

Yes, all else being equal, higher ADM is a larger talent pool. But a lot of times talent hoards at middle schools just like high schools. Which is why it seems like the same schools just reload. Kids want to win, parents want scholarships, etc.

 

[VolNation85]

Yes, all else being equal, higher ADM is a larger talent pool. But a lot of times talent hoards at middle schools just like high schools. Which is why it seems like the same schools just reload. Kids want to win, parents want scholarships, etc.

Absolutely!

 

[oldfool2]

Not saying the bigger schools always have the best teams. What I mean is that there is usually more talent at the lager schools just due to sheer numbers.

Bad thing is alot of talent is stil walking the halls at school and not being actively recruited by coaches.

 

[VolNation85]

When any playoff game is 64-0 at halftime there are way too many teams qualified for the playoffs.

Or teams not properly aligned due to VHSL decisions...

 

[VolNation85]

Lafayette has around 1160. Why is Phoebus going to class 4?

According to the most recent ADM from VHSL, Lafayette is at 846 grades 9-11. VHSL only counts grades 9-11.

 

[VolNation85]

Thanks, BN!

Does anyone know for certain if the current numbers are for grades 9-11, while the previous ones are for 9-12? If so, it would make sense as to why the current numbers are significantly less for a lot of schools....

Current ones are 9-11. Old ADMs used to be 10-12 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[VolNation85]

Lol you’re just giving Heritage an excuse. It’s cool though.

LOL dude I wish you would stop putting words in people's mouth. I literally said nothing about Heritage or Phoebus in that comment. I have literally said congratulations to Phoebus, said they were the clear cut best team, said I am friend's with several of the coaches at Phoebus, said Phoebus defense was the best in any classification this year...and from all of that you still got that I'm giving Heritage an excuse? I bet you even think I am a Heritage fan LOL

@Gunz41 who is this guy? LOL

 

[LHS Rams]

Current ones are 9-11. Old ADMs used to be 10-12 if I'm not mistaken.

I'm thinking it had to have been 9-12 previously...the decreases are simply too big. What's interesting, though, is that Phoebus only had a decrease of 6, going from 1017 in 2018 to 1011 this year...have to wonder if they might have incidentally reported 9-12 again, instead of 9-11? Phoebus is bound to have a relatively small geographic footprint, unless they rezoned and got some kids from Kecoughtan....

 

[VolNation85]

I'm thinking it had to have been 9-12 previously...the decreases are simply too big. What's interesting, though, is that Phoebus only had a decrease of 6, going from 1017 in 2018 to 1011 this year...have to wonder if they might have incidentally reported 9-12 again, instead of 9-11? Phoebus is bound to have a relatively small geographic footprint, unless they rezoned and got some kids from Kecoughtan....

That is interesting

 

[Phoebus Fan]

If we know anything about Coach Bradley, he doesn’t mince words or make excuses. And yea basically the first thing out of that coaches mouth was an excuse last year!

Yeah that guy really said a bunch of nonsense. To be honest Heritage beating them was probably best because i know if we played them this year that score was going to get ran up if we played.

 

[General172011]

Not saying the bigger schools always have the best teams. What I mean is that there is usually more talent at the lager schools just due to sheer numbers.

Well that’s not true

 

[VolNation85]

Well that’s not true

LOL what's not true? Are you saying that smaller schools usually have more talent? Or that the number of students in the school has nothing to do with the amount of talent in the school?

 

[General172011]

LOL are you saying that smaller schools usually have more talent? Or that the number of students in the school has nothing to do with the amount of talent in the school?

The number of students has nothing to do with the talent.

 

[VolNation85]

The number of students has nothing to do with the talent.

So you don't think a school with 2000 students will usually have more talent than a school with 500 students for example?

 

[General172011]

Well of course but those teams wouldn’t be playing each other. I’m talking from 1000 to 2500, I don’t believe it’s true for those numbers & there are multiple programs with numbers in between 1000-1500 who can prove me right. Ex. Phoebus Dinwiddie Varina Salem Lake Taylor Hopewell I’m sure I’m missing more but those team defeat larger classification schools on the regular . Just because you have more numbers doesn’t mean you have more talent

 

[GoBlue2109]

I think the difference comes from coaching and creating a certain culture. The bigger schools definitely have a larger talent pool than the smaller ones. Take the coaching from any of those traditionally good schools you named and put them at like a Westfield, Chantilly, Oakton, Thomas Dale(who I believe routinely underachieves) and they would light the state on fire with the talent pool those schools have. Obviously some areas just have "something in the water" and produce a ridiculous amount of talent no matter the year.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

If Coach Mills was at PG, they would be perennial playoff team.
Enough said.

 

[Phoebus Fan]

Culture means way than school population. A football teams needs 40-45 kids so if the culture is there the kids will come. Phoebus won their first 7 titles in Divison 5 but had the enrollment of a lower D4 closer to D3 some years. Bringing up enrollment was just a garbage excuse somebody tried to give Heritage.

 

[VolNation85]

Well of course but those teams wouldn’t be playing each other. I’m talking from 1000 to 2500, I don’t believe it’s true for those numbers & there are multiple programs with numbers in between 1000-1500 who can prove me right. Ex. Phoebus Dinwiddie Varina Salem Lake Taylor Hopewell I’m sure I’m missing more but those team defeat larger classification schools on the regular . Just because you have more numbers doesn’t mean you have more talent

You are correct but you are leaving out a key word that I said. I said "usually." Not every single time/case but more often than not, larger schools have more talent to choose from just because there are more people. That simple math. It's the same as cities compared to rural areas. Cities have more options such as restaurants, hospitals, schools, retail, etc. just because there are more people.

 

[BleedingNavy]

If Coach Mills was at PG, they would be perennial playoff team.
Enough said.

If Thomas Dale had coach Mills for the past 10 years he would have won a state title or two there. Biggest waste of talent in RVA. I actually respect the heck out of the Knights players. How can you have so many D1 players and not once make it to the final 4. Tucker CANNOT win the big game. Sure he occasionally beats Dinwiddie and splits with Hopewell , but he is supposed to beat them both consistently. Every year Dale loses a game in the regular season and gets bounced in the playoffs. Big talk and no walk. I try my best to support and cheer them only to hear Tucker say we had a good season, maybe next year. "Dark Zone Defense" my tail. No coaching zone is more like it. The TD players deserve better.

 

[GoBlue2109]

If Thomas Dale had coach Mills for the past 10 years he would have won a state title or two there. Biggest waste of talent in RVA. I actually respect the heck out of the Knights players. How can you have so many D1 players and not once make it to the final 4. Tucker CANNOT win the big game. Sure he occasionally beats Dinwiddie and splits with Hopewell , but he is supposed to beat them both consistently. Every year Dale loses a game in the regular season and gets bounced in the playoffs. Big talk and no walk. I try my best to support and cheer them only to hear Tucker say we had a good season, maybe next year. "Dark Zone Defense" my tail. No coaching zone is more like it. The TD players deserve better.

🤣 🤣 I was trying to be nice but I feel the same.

 

[BleedingNavy]

In 2009, Dale won the State Championship under Vic Williams. Tucker was handed the keys. He failed to make the playoffs 2 of the first three years. He has made the playoffs every year since 2013 and he is 11-11 in the playoffs as a coach. He has made one region final (2015) and has never made the state semis. Granted Oscar Smith, Ocean Lakes, and Manchester have stood in their way, but one cannot say Dale has lacked talent during Tuckers tenure. Just look how many times he has changed the offense. Enough said.

 

[falcettik]

I think the difference comes from coaching and creating a certain culture. The bigger schools definitely have a larger talent pool than the smaller ones. Take the coaching from any of those traditionally good schools you named and put them at like a Westfield, Chantilly, Oakton, Thomas Dale(who I believe routinely underachieves) and they would light the state on fire with the talent pool those schools have. Obviously some areas just have "something in the water" and produce a ridiculous amount of talent no matter the year.

With regard to the four schools you mention:
Westfield-nothing at all wrong with the culture and the coaching and it remains one of the best groups of coaches in VA. Westfield has seen a drop in talent and overall team size/speed over the past several years (relative to the teams in the past) and that is why they have recently struggled to repeat past success.
Chantilly-not sure if it is coaching or talent. They seem to have the numbers and size, so perhaps it is coaching. They have been a perennially average to just above average program.
Oakton-definitely coaching, IMO. I was told by some parents that previous coaches decimated the program, with one recent (within the past 3-5 years) senior class dropping from the normal 50+ FR to just a handful of seniors by the time they graduated. That takes a long time to recover from but they have shown glimpses of improvement the past two years.
Dale-I don't know Dale so I defer to what the RVA posters have been saying.

Generally speaking, there are a lot of good coaches across the state. They get what they can out of the players they have. Yes, some schools seem to produce talent more than others but I think it is incorrect to state that Coach X can come in to School Y (that allegedly always has talent) and they will just start winning championships.

 

[GoBlue2109]

With regard to the four schools you mention:
Westfield-nothing at all wrong with the culture and the coaching and it remains one of the best groups of coaches in VA. Westfield has seen a drop in talent and overall team size/speed over the past several years (relative to the teams in the past) and that is why they have recently struggled to repeat past success.
Chantilly-not sure if it is coaching or talent. They seem to have the numbers and size, so perhaps it is coaching. They have been a perennially average to just above average program.
Oakton-definitely coaching, IMO. I was told by some parents that previous coaches decimated the program, with one recent (within the past 3-5 years) senior class dropping from the normal 50+ FR to just a handful of seniors by the time they graduated. That takes a long time to recover from but they have shown glimpses of improvement the past two years.
Dale-I don't know Dale so I defer to what the RVA posters have been saying.

Generally speaking, there are a lot of good coaches across the state. They get what they can out of the players they have. Yes, some schools seem to produce talent more than others but I think it is incorrect to state that Coach X can come in to School Y (that allegedly always has talent) and they will just start winning championships.

I got you on the Westfield point, they were just one of the big schools I could think of right away. I know they recently had the 3peat and some success earlier in the 2000's. I was just making the point they are a large school and based on past results has to have a huge talent pool. Maybe somebody more along the lines of C.D. Hylton and James Robinson is what I was trying to say.

 

[2up2downNole]

I got you on the Westfield point, they were just one of the big schools I could think of right away. I know they recently had the 3peat and some success earlier in the 2000's. I was just making the point they are a large school and based on past results has to have a huge talent pool. Maybe somebody more along the lines of C.D. Hylton and James Robinson is what I was trying to say.

Hylton and James Robinson used to be in the discussion for D6 championship contention all through the 90's and early 00's