Obviously, you play the same teams in your district every year. That can't be avoided. Out of district Salem has played teams in higher divisions like Patrick Henry, William Fleming, and Franklin County. They have also gone out of town to play great programs like Dinwiddie, LCA, and Martinsburg. Without question Salem has challenged themselves more than any other local team
Salem vs PH!! At Salem!!
- Thread starter Kilroy25
- Start date
You will surely get incoming. The needs of certain fans to cover their insecurity and overcompensate always shows up when anyone makes a comment that even appears to denigrate the Spartan dynasty. They play a good schedule and challenging schedule considering the district and class they play in. Moreover, the results speak for themselves in terms of preparing Salem for the playoffs. The formula works.
I know who they've played. I wasn't sure about LCA, but I knew Martinsburg would be trouble. How many of those out-of-town so to speak games has Salem won over the last 20 years? They're 0-3 against Martinsburg, 0-1 against LCA..?
That's my point. A lot of their wins over the years have been against the same teams save for the playoffs where you really don't have a choice. Northside, Franklin County, Fleming, Botetourt, Byrd. Some of that's tradition. I can understand that. It's ok. You're not going to lose your good Salem fan carrying card by being honest.
@BleedingNavy @DinwiddieProud @DinGen53
You guys want the 2017 and 2018 regular season wins over Salem or would you trade them for a win in 2016?
You guys want the 2017 and 2018 regular season wins over Salem or would you trade them for a win in 2016?
Apparently I have, just being honest, and I just found out that you have to have a lot of money to be a good Salem fan as well. No wonder the board says what they say about Salem fans!!
I love Salem. It's your quintessential little college town. But this is why their fans always crack me up. They beat up on the same teams just about every year. They'd be 3A in NC, probably 4A in SC, that'd take some shine off that playoff record real quick. You'd see them tone it down quite a bit.
But man they have trouble seeing things from a different perspective. It's like their heads explode sometimes 😂. Don't worry Salem! You're still REALLY good. Almost every year. I'll be pulling for you in the playoffs👍
Not sure why you would appear to throw shade on Dinwiddie. Your man @southbottomU, brought us into the conversation. I enjoyed seeing Dinwiddie beat Salem in 2017 and 2018 especially when Santa Clause and his elves had the mysterious false whistle on the Ramsey's fumble which would have ended the game. @mbonape1, has said this a million times and I will repeat it. It took a perfect game (one declined penalty), an out of body experience by Beckley to beat the Generals in 2016. Still one of the best games I have ever seen. Mad respect for both of those teams. Sure Dinwiddie would love to have beaten Salem for another State Championship, but we would also like to have the other two (2000 and 2008) as well. Personally, the 2010 semi-final loss to Phoebus sucks more than the 2016 loss.
Nobody here is inflating Salem's worth beyond what they are, which is a good mid-enrollment school in Virginia. These NC and SC divisions, yea, guess what happens if you move them to Florida or Texas or Cali, they'd be doing nothing and winning nothing. Crazy how that works.
It's just such a poorly constructed argument. First you essentially cop to the point that playoffs are all that actually matter then you try to argue around that anyway by declaring the team with the most wins in the entire state of Virginia since 1978 would win fewer games if circumstances were different and then ignore that "when they have no choice in who the play".
"If things were different the results might be different" is just such a low-effort argument and could be said of literally anyone with control over their schedule. I could make the exact same argument for Saban-era Bama, it's laughable.
Sigh. Nobody threw shade on Dinwiddie, uncurl your britches. The point, which I thought was pretty obvious but evidently not, was that a playoff win was of greater value than a regular season win, hence me asking you if you would trade the two regular season wins you had over Salem for the 2016 title.
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It's really not. You're obfuscating. That record over the last 20 years gets padded A LOT during the regular season. Those were my exact words. It's true. They've played and beaten a lot of the same teams over the years. When they get a Martinsburg, LCA or Dinwiddie, they've typically lost those games. That doesn't detract from their postseason achievements. It's as simple as that. I don't know why you're having so much trouble with it.
I knew what you were implying and I gave you an honest answer. Sigh all you desire.
I actually said appear and I don't wear "britches". Dungarees maybe. Any idiot would prefer playoff success, but let's be honest Salem can get away with OOD losses and still be a very high seed in Region D. I refuse to throw shade on Salem's winning tradition or strength of schedule. Good teams win when it counts. Enough said.
Some of you place far more importance on home field than me, I guess. High seed is kind of a joke at this level. If you actually need home field, you are unlikely to actually be that good team when it counts. 2015 Salem, which some fans will argue is the best Salem team ever, was on the road from the second week of the playoffs onwards and faced unbeaten John Champe, unbeaten JF, and unbeaten LT. The 2000 and 2004 titles were won ENTIRELY on the road. The 2017 title had weeks 2 and 3 on the road (unsure if Salem out-pointed Sherando or not if the C/D rotational hosting wasn't a thing) and 2016 title had week 2 on the road. Salem "getting away with losses" OOD when the opponents are 10-0 or 9-1 Martinsburg, 8-2 Amherst, 10-0 or 9-1 Dinwiddie, and likely 10-0 or 9-1 LCA doesn't really help your argument. Those are "good losses", exactly what you would call Glenville. Dinwiddie might have to play an extra game on the road this year but uh, between you and me, it's unlikely it matters.
The last time Salem missed the playoffs, 2003, they finished 8-2. Yep, Region D and 8-2 didn't do it that year back then when you actually needed more than a pulse to make the playoffs. And that was a really good Salem team, too, like even for Salem standards. Their two losses were 25-20 to an 8-2 Byrd team (who also missed the playoffs) and 17-16 to a 9-2 Blacksburg team whose only 2 losses were to eventual state runner-up William Fleming. That Fleming team? Salem walloped them 26-7, far worse than the 6-0 loss they took from Powhatan in the finals. Get @Shabutie in here to talk about 2003, he'll tell you.
Because it's a vapid argument. Name me any Virginia team and if they played a tougher OOD schedule, they'd have fewer regular season wins, too. Salem isn't Mater Dei, of course if the schedule gets tougher they'd have fewer losses.
You guys are wasting your time. The mere hint of questioning anything Spartan brings the insecure ones out swinging and no rational explanation or clarification of context will suffice.
???
They'd have more losses.
I don't think that's necessarily the case either. I mean, that's kind of a loser mentality isn't it? There's a lot of room, at least in my eyes, between beating the same handful of teams from the same little area every year, and getting your ass handed to you by Martinsburg. I watched the LCA game. Salem could've won. They just didn't.
I feel like the winningest program in the state over the last 20 years would be a bit more meaningful had they scheduled more games like that and actually won them. I'd really expect that team to have at least a win or two over a Martinsburg or someone like that but they've only played them a few times over the years.
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Maybe playing at home or on the road doesn't matter to Salem, but ask any of the Generals past opponents if it's fun to play in Dinwiddie in November? Since Coach Mills came to town and the Generals started making the playoffs (2007) Dinwiddie has lost very few playoff games at home. 2007 (Patrick Henry), 2010 (semis -Phoebus), 2012 (Hopewell), 2017 (Reg. Final -Louisa), and 2021 (Patrick Henry). Take a look. I think the proof is obvious. Home field generally matters to the Generals, region b, and the State Semis.
Dinwiddie's playoff record:
Home: 21-5, .807 winning percentage
Neutral: 3-3 .500 winning percentage
Away: 4-5 .444 winning percentage
Since 2013 State Semis: Region A vs. Region B.
Home team 8-0, 1.000 winning percentage
Since 2013 Salem playoff record:
Home: 22-3 .880
Away: 6-3 .666
Neutral: 3-1 .750
Since 2013 State Semis: Region C vs. D
Home team: 7-4 .636
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This is the same for everyone in the state. You assume everyone would jump to play Salem. It want to travel across the state for a regular season game. Scheduling is not that easy. Salem only played Martinsburg because they couldn't get anyone else to play them. Martinsburg's has a very flexible schedule to accommodate your open weeks. Other teams that would have played Salem but the weeks didn't line up were Heritage in Lynchburg and Highland Springs.
Scheduling is a huge pain, that's why we have district play. Otherwise most teams wouldn't even have 10 games. Roanoke Co schools would love to drop PH and Salem but can't
I was looking through their games yesterday and saw where they'd played Carroll County a few years. I don't remember that at all. Were they in the same district at some point?
A lot of teams are afraid to schedule Salem, cough cough LB. So they get who they can on the schedule.
CC was put in the River Ridge district for 4 years. They didn't win a district game in the RRD.
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Carroll County even took a forfeit one year rather than play Salem after initial date was rained out.
They have won them in the playoffs and that's where it matters.
I agree and I've said as much. Remember this started with the winningest program talk. Most of those wins aren't accumulated in the playoffs.
I really do think some of their scheduling has a lot to do with tradition. Like I said, I can understand that. That Lord Botetourt game goes way back. They used to play them every year. So, I understand the need/want to play Lord Botetourt. Salem's also in what I'd consider a tradition rich part of the state. That's the culture there. It's one of the reasons I like it. And I don't doubt that some of the nearby schools would rather avoid them in football.
Northside is another that will never come off the schedule, they've been playing every year since Salem was founded and that series is crazy lopsided at 36-13-1 and even more lopsided when you realized Salem lost the first seven games of the series and tied the ninth game. Salem is 36-7-1 since the Willis White days. LB never should have come off, Harless got scared for no reason. He's spent recent years doing an "iron sharpens iron" approach to OOD scheduling with Glass, Appo, and Riverheads I'm guessing in hopes of strengthening their playoff readiness but apparently the team right down 81 that would say "yes" instantly to striking the series back up isn't up to LB standards for OOD scheduling.
Yeah, Northside is the one that comes to mind. I can tell you Lord Botetourt certainly didn't take much of an iron sharpens iron approach with Olympic. Probably the biggest fraud in NC last year!
Ugly game. LB so undisciplined but Olympic is so terrible it didn't matter. No idea how that game came to fruition.
Y’all can say what you want about Coach Harless, at the end of the day he turned a program that was in shambles, 1playoff win in the programs history, and has turned them around and now they’re regional contenders practically every year!! 111-31 record and most of those losses were when he first took over! Kids are getting offered left and right, isn’t that what it’s all about??
No one is bashing Harless. Why play all these lower tier schools, Riverheads, Bluefield, Appomattox and Olympic. None of those schools filling seats at LB. Play the school right down the road and pack the house every other yr. It's just a perfect example of a school that use to play Salem every year and now that they are good, won't play Salem.
@SFUWO I think we had this discussion back in the summer. When I saw Olympic on the schedule, I knew it was some bulljive. They are not good and a laughing stock football program in Charlotte. Botty needs to man up and play Salem and LCA in OOD. Throw GW on the schedule as well to replace those C2 teams.
I mean, Riverheads and Appo have taken a piece of Botty flesh a time of two, I don't see anything wrong with them or Glass but the reality is what it is when it comes to Salem and it's nonsensical since LB has opened the season three years in a row now with a loss to Glass and has several other OOD losses on the schedule. If you're not afraid of dropping OOD games to teams who can give you good rider points, just pick up the phone and make the call.
After what happened during COVID, I know it's all a pipe dream anyway. Could be a great week 1 game, put 5,000+ fans in Salem Stadium (and max capacity for whatever LB holds) but I guess it's not to be anymore. Hopefully the next HC will be more receptive to renewing the series.
If that's bashing how good a coach is then I'm wrong. Neither one of those phases in my eyes changes anything about how good a coach he is. I don't think he's scared to play. He just doesn't want to play.
Wife teaches at Salem. Might not want to put her in uncomfortable situation.
Just a thought. but doesn't every public high school in the state of Virginia play just about the same teams every year? They play their district schedule:
( Pulaski, Hidden Valley, Cave Spring, Christiansburg, Blacksburg, Patrick Henry),
,then a few geographically close rivals (Northside, William Byrd, William Fleming, Franklin County) ?
Salem is one of just a few programs that usually go out of their way to add a very challenging game to their schedule (Martinsburg, Dinwiddie, LCA).
To criticize their schedule and by association their win totals, is really going out of your way to be critical and doing so in a trivial and illogical manner.
Salem is not a private school that travels all over the state or region.
