VHSL Considerations - 2020

[VAHoops1]

Message from the head of the VHSL:

I will share the VHSL does have an Ad Hoc committee discussing participation. The biggest issue on their agenda is the length of the high school football season. Some of the topics being discussed are: 1) how early practice should begin, 2) how to possibly shorten the season by one or two weeks, 3) consideration for shortening the season include eliminating a scrimmage, eliminating a week out of the regional playoffs, and eliminating the bye week out of the regular season. Over the last few years, there are fewer number of student athletes participating in high school football than in years past. The dynamics are changing and our member schools need to evaluate the situation.

 

[19GHS87]

Message from the head of the VHSL:

I will share the VHSL does have an Ad Hoc committee discussing participation. The biggest issue on their agenda is the length of the high school football season. Some of the topics being discussed are: 1) how early practice should begin, 2) how to possibly shorten the season by one or two weeks, 3) consideration for shortening the season include eliminating a scrimmage, eliminating a week out of the regional playoffs, and eliminating the bye week out of the regular season. Over the last few years, there are fewer number of student athletes participating in high school football than in years past. The dynamics are changing and our member schools need to evaluate the situation.

Eliminate one round of the playoffs (too many teams make it in anyway) and start the season a week earlier (like Tennessee). Problem solved. Eliminate the Bye week and you have saved 3 weeks. I wouldn't even consider cutting back to 1 scrimmage.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Eliminate year round practice. Nuff said.

 

[Bo Bob]

Eliminate one round of the playoffs (too many teams make it in anyway) and start the season a week earlier (like Tennessee). Problem solved. Eliminate the Bye week and you have saved 3 weeks. I wouldn't even consider cutting back to 1 scrimmage.

I agree! Too may teams in playoffs.
Start season a week sooner but keep the by week. That buys you two weeks.

 

[knightfan64]

Season will vary from year to year. This year it started late bc the first games were in Labor Day Weekend. Some years you will have the State title games be early as the 8th. This year they are the 14th. I really like the model we have now I just preferred the 16 teams per side playoffs. Wanna keep kids out? Create contact/practice hour limits like the NCAA. Don’t have all year round practice. Have a set spring limitation and summer limitation. Bigger dead periods etc. Some get mad at the playoff pool bc of losing teams. I agree. But eliminate it and you have a bunch of winning teams not getting in too. Double edged sword, and I like the playoffs expanded vs prior to 2011 when they had 2 byes and smaller playoffs. The chase to turn high school programs into mini colleges is the major issue

 

[Gunz41]

I doubt you see the number of teams in playoffs go down. I'm really not sure it needs to. Aside from the obvious with several teams showing, its less money for the host schools, and the VHSL. And it gives these kids an extra game when it will be most last time playing.

And all the less scrimmage is going to do is have teams going with some kind of joint practice, anything so it isn't considered a scrimmage.

Just looking at the playoffs from last week (so Region Final)

Dinwiddie and East Rockingham were past top 4.

And if you go to 4, you will hear even more about the "unfairness" of some Regions having better teams. Or even worse, teams schedules get lighter JUST for points. Here is winning records by teams 5-8 in playoffs

Class 6: A-1 (6-4), B-3 (8-2, 7-3, 6-4), C-3 (7-3, 6-4, 6-4) D-2 (6-4, 6-4)
Class 5: A-4 (9-1, 8-2, 7-3, 6-4) B-4 (8-2, 7-3, 7-3, 6-4), C-0, D-0
Class 4: A-1 (6-4), B-3 (7-3, 6-4, 7-3; doesn't include Dinwiddie), C-4 (2 7-3, 2 6-4), D-3 (7-3, 6-4, 6-4
Class 3: A-2 (6-4, 6-4), B-0, C-1 (6-4), D-1 (6-4)
Class 2: A-3 (7-3, 6-4, 6-4), B-4 (2 7-3, 2 6-4), C-3 (3 6-4), D-2 (6-4, 7-3)
Class 1: A-2 (2 6-4), B-0, C-0, D-3 (3 6-4)

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but the way things are currently constituted, it just leaves too much to make it an even playing field. Just think about a team like King William, most of their district foes are Class 1, so they are already in a hole, whereas a team like Dinwiddie has to play mostly larger classes (which can be good or bad). Another example in the lower classes where people may be more familiar is George Wythe. Even their own fans say how bad their district is, which again hurts them when they can't get the same points as others. And it also would effect teams based on their location in the state. Take Graham as the example. Would they play a team who is always good in Bluefield if they weren't close? They get more points for a LOSS to them than some teams get for wins.

And the last point I will bring up. I have seen on these boards this year with people complaining because their Region is so much harder than another. Which means like it used to be when we only had 4 from each Region going that a team could be really good and left out and look at another Region in same class and a team not nearly as good is in. It sounds like it was a foregone conclusion before the season that Stone Bridge would be in the Championship game because of their Region and Semifinals. But look at 5B, Highland Springs (4 championships in a row) Manchester (Class 6 champion last year), Varina who beat BOTH), and Deep Run who was undefeated. Or even look in Class 2, I have read from people this week that the Appomattox and Graham game is the championship game.

 

[monarch82]

I agree to end the "legal" year round practice, yes some schools will continue to do so just like they were doing before it became legal. However, in smaller schools especially, you have coaches not allowing their players to participate in other sports because "they need to be lifting", "preparing for the 7 on 7", "be in open gym working on things" "throwing" "hitting" etc. Now a strong school administration can handle this problem fairly easily, however that is not the case in far to many schools and depending on whether your school is a "football school", basketball school", "baseball/softball school" or whatever those coaches do what they want and get away with it. Now there are many schools where coaches do not mind sharing athletes and want the other sports to succeed to help the school and most importantly the kids become more well-rounded, better overall athletes and based on many medical studies less likely to become injured for by over using some muscles and not developing others as much, and not giving some time to heal moving from fall to winter to spring. It seems more and more coaches are in it for themselves and not for the kids, the school or the community. I am glad I was in school and at a school where coaches encouraged you to play other sports and came to the games to really support us and the other sport we were playing. Kids only go through high school once and they should be allowed to participate in what they want without pressure from a coach to be a one sport athlete, you don't get a chance and go back and repeat in high school, you have 4 years and for most high school athletes this is the end of the road unless they join an adult basketball league of the church softball league, both very good and fun but its not like wearing your school colors and supporting your community.

Now there is another side as always in high school athletics----parents. There are many who get upset with coaches who are not practicing year round and will call the school, school board office and even the school board about the coach NOT doing their job by not practicing. Getting rid of year round practice will help alleviate this as well. I coached high school for over 30 years and had two kids play in high school and was fortunate enough to have one be able to play in college so I have seen it from both sides and yes mine played multiple sports and neither played the sports I coached go figure.

 

[knightfan64]

I agree to end the "legal" year round practice, yes some schools will continue to do so just like they were doing before it became legal. However, in smaller schools especially, you have coaches not allowing their players to participate in other sports because "they need to be lifting", "preparing for the 7 on 7", "be in open gym working on things" "throwing" "hitting" etc. Now a strong school administration can handle this problem fairly easily, however that is not the case in far to many schools and depending on whether your school is a "football school", basketball school", "baseball/softball school" or whatever those coaches do what they want and get away with it. Now there are many schools where coaches do not mind sharing athletes and want the other sports to succeed to help the school and most importantly the kids become more well-rounded, better overall athletes and based on many medical studies less likely to become injured for by over using some muscles and not developing others as much, and not giving some time to heal moving from fall to winter to spring. It seems more and more coaches are in it for themselves and not for the kids, the school or the community. I am glad I was in school and at a school where coaches encouraged you to play other sports and came to the games to really support us and the other sport we were playing. Kids only go through high school once and they should be allowed to participate in what they want without pressure from a coach to be a one sport athlete, you don't get a chance and go back and repeat in high school, you have 4 years and for most high school athletes this is the end of the road unless they join an adult basketball league of the church softball league, both very good and fun but its not like wearing your school colors and supporting your community.

Now there is another side as always in high school athletics----parents. There are many who get upset with coaches who are not practicing year round and will call the school, school board office and even the school board about the coach NOT doing their job by not practicing. Getting rid of year round practice will help alleviate this as well. I coached high school for over 30 years and had two kids play in high school and was fortunate enough to have one be able to play in college so I have seen it from both sides and yes mine played multiple sports and neither played the sports I coached go figure.

With smaller schools I just think you have to work on not only sharing athletes, but also sharing coaches. There used to be a day when your football coaches would routinely coach other sports as well. No more. Heck, I know of several small schools that make spring workouts mandatory and prevent their kids from doing spring sports on the 1A or 2A level. Seems to be a bad look to me.

 

[gtownfencecrew]

We've had kids at cross country practice, during the season, tell us they're "taking it easy" at our practice to "save energy for basketball open gym tonight"..........

 

[swva_havok_fan]

Tennessee and Kentucky both have 32 team playoffs in all classifications. Nobody complains over there. Why is it that only Virginia folks complain about the 32 team playoffs? I like the playoff format the way it is now. The only thing that needs to be changed is the split district stuff. For example, the Mountain 7. Get Abingdon out and put them in a 3A district. Who cares about the travel? Once again, I will use Tennessee as the example. In 6A, region 1 you have Dobyns Bennett and Science Hill located in the upper northeast Tennessee area. The next closest team out of the 5 others in that region is 75 miles away. So D-B and Science Hill are forced to take either 2 or 3 trips per year to the Knoxville area. Yet nobody over there complains.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Year round practice was one of the dumbest things VHSL has ever implemented.

 

[knightfan64]

What about a model similar to California's? They have divisions determined based on competitive balance. It is all based on a formula every 2 years of wins and playoff wins. Then they split the divisions. Might create more interesting playoffs.

 

[Scarlett_Grey]

Get rid of year round practice. We all know which Regions of the state liked the idea and why it was implemented. It creates more one sport players. I refuse to call them athletes because athletes play more than one sport. there are also current campaigns using professional sports to encourage kids to play multiple sports, but Virginia puts things into place to discourage it. Funny how eliminating year round was not listed as a possible solution.

The playoff format, however VHSL structures it will receive complaints. With more teams getting in some regions will have teams with poor records in. Lower the number of teams in playoffs and regions will have good teams and records left out.

I do not like the idea of shortening the season itself. 10 games with a bye is good. I do not like teams having a bye in the first or last week of the season. I know it is necessary, but an idea might be to have a state wide bye week. All teams are off during the same week and schedule it after 5 weeks of play. Allow the young adults bodies a break. Bye's during the 1st or last couple of games serves no purpose.

I would see the best solution, of those proposed, would be to shorten the length of the 20 days/practices leading up to the first game. I have coached for a long time and those 20 days are a grind on the body and soul of the players AND the coaches. I like the idea someone mentioned about the time limitations, but that is sorta in place now and is not followed or able to be policed. There is a way around all of the policies put in place. VHSL could mandate a limitation on contact, but that would need to be policed as well and then a clear definition of what contact is would also have to be examined.

Whatever is decided will certainly come with complaints, that is the only given.

 

[obguthr]

Tennessee and Kentucky both have 32 team playoffs in all classifications. Nobody complains over there. Why is it that only Virginia folks complain about the 32 team playoffs? I like the playoff format the way it is now. The only thing that needs to be changed is the split district stuff. For example, the Mountain 7. Get Abingdon out and put them in a 3A district. Who cares about the travel? Once again, I will use Tennessee as the example. In 6A, region 1 you have Dobyns Bennett and Science Hill located in the upper northeast Tennessee area. The next closest team out of the 5 others in that region is 75 miles away. So D-B and Science Hill are forced to take either 2 or 3 trips per year to the Knoxville area. Yet nobody over there complains.

I agree wholeheartedly about the split district nonsense. The Abingdon situation is a bad example though. To fill out a 1 class district of at least 3-4 other teams would have them making numerous trips to Roanoke in all sports.

You can never get away from split districts completely (M7, Blue Ridge, Eastern Shore, etc.) but it shouldn't be the norm that it is. Single class districts can be done with virtually no increase in travel since a lot of these games are being scheduled as non-district games anyway. This is OT as redistricting doesn't address season length at all.

 

[swva_havok_fan]

What about a model similar to California's? They have divisions determined based on competitive balance. It is all based on a formula every 2 years of wins and playoff wins. Then they split the divisions. Might create more interesting playoffs.

That is very interesting indeed...

I agree wholeheartedly about the split district nonsense. The Abingdon situation is a bad example though. To fill out a 1 class district of at least 3-4 other teams would have them making numerous trips to Roanoke in all sports.

You can never get away from split districts completely (M7, Blue Ridge, Eastern Shore, etc.) but it shouldn't be the norm that it is. Single class districts can be done with virtually no increase in travel since a lot of these games are being scheduled as non-district games anyway. This is OT as redistricting doesn't address season length at all.

That is true as well... In Tennessee and Kentucky they have three classes in all the other sports besides football... so Virginia should do that as well. Current 3A and 4A would be 2A in the other sports. You could make a 5 team district with Abingdon, Carroll, Blacksburg, Christiansburg and Pulaski.

But yeah... football would probably be difficult... meaning a district that would have Abingdon, Carroll, Christiansburg, Northside, Botetourt and Hidden Valley? Can't remember all the 3A teams... lol

 

[BigWinners]

What's wrong with Abingdon playing in a 2A district? They aren't a competitive juggernaut destroying everyone and the travel isn't bad at all. Esp in football points, it helps having the chance to add a 3A win. I don't understand the issue.

 

[Gunz41]

What's wrong with Abingdon playing in a 2A district? They aren't a competitive juggernaut destroying everyone and the travel isn't bad at all. Esp in football points, it helps having the chance to add a 3A win. I don't understand the issue.

For me, the last part of your statement is the part that could be unfair if the number of teams that make playoffs was cut in half. Those extra 2 points could decide. Or take it further (not like it would matter recently) but Riverheads. The only team Class 1 in district. So that already gives them an advantage over some of the other teams in their Region, and even more so hosts for Semifinals. While the flip side is someone like KW having mostly 1a teams in district I believe.

This stuff was only brought up because of VHSL want to shorten season, and one of the things mentioned was 4 per region instead of 8

 

[CeeJay]

Some coaches are making spring and summer practice mandatory. I know a kid who started both ways as a sophomore te/de who was told when he reported for fall practice that his absence during the summer to play aau basketball and vacationing with family was like quitting on the team

 

[Gunz41]

Some coaches are making spring and summer practice mandatory. I know a kid who started both ways as a sophomore te/de who was told when he reported for fall practice that his absence during the summer to play aau basketball and vacationing with family was like quitting on the team

That is ridiculous

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

That coach should be fired.

 

[swva_havok_fan]

What's wrong with Abingdon playing in a 2A district? They aren't a competitive juggernaut destroying everyone and the travel isn't bad at all. Esp in football points, it helps having the chance to add a 3A win. I don't understand the issue.

I know for a fact that nobody from Ridgeview likes having Abingdon in the district and from what I understand, Union's volleyball coach was very outspoken too about them being in the district.

 

[Scarlett_Grey]

I have heard numerous reports of coaches at all levels making off season practice mandatory and not allowing players to play or participate in other sports for fear of injury. I have witnessed it myself at some places I have been. Kids are told that if you miss x amount of days or do not participate, then you will not be in the teams plans come season. To me this is putting your ego and wanting to win/look good over the best interests of players. College coaches, at all levels, look for multi sport athletes, but high school coaches are letting their own agenda get in the way of that and unfairly putting pressure on the kids to play one sport.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

When this happens, Coach needs to go, along with AD and Principal.

 

[BigWinners]

I know for a fact that nobody from Ridgeview likes having Abingdon in the district and from what I understand, Union's volleyball coach was very outspoken too about them being in the district.

Why? Travel to AHS is only about 20mins longer than to say GC or Ridgeview from Union, it's not ostentatious.

you could replace them with Virginia High and have exact same travel, a one sport powerhouse (baseball) but only get 2A points in football.

Abingdon hasn't stopped Union from making deep playoff runs in VB last two seasons (choking against Floyd was brutal. Up 3-0 and then lose at home, argh), I don't understand how it's an issue.

 

[Scarlett_Grey]

When this happens, Coach needs to go, along with AD and Principal.

AD and principal have to be willing to take a stand. That's very difficult to find in modern society. Everyone is too worried about appearances or upsetting someone or complaints.

You are right though, they should be stepping in and correcting this behavior.

 

[Union_Fan]

I know for a fact that nobody from Ridgeview likes having Abingdon in the district and from what I understand, Union's volleyball coach was very outspoken too about them being in the district.

Abingdon's VB coach was less than nice a few years ago in a match against Union. The Bears beat them on their home court and something rubbed her the wrong way. I wasn't there, but had several people tell me that she showed herself big time. Pitched a fit about crowd noise or something. I want to think she made some comments in the paper too, but I can't find them.

So, I don't know if it's that or them being 3A. No clue.

 

[swva_havok_fan]

Abingdon's VB coach was less than nice a few years ago in a match against Union. The Bears beat them on their home court and something rubbed her the wrong way. I wasn't there, but had several people tell me that she showed herself big time. Pitched a fit about crowd noise or something. I want to think she made some comments in the paper too, but I can't find them.

So, I don't know if it's that or them being 3A. No clue.

Yes, the Abingdon volleyball coach is the one who said in the BHC that "They (Union) don't want us in their district."

Something also happened between Ridgeview and them last year in the district tournament although I don't really know what it was. I just know our players and coach at the time walked off the court without the traditional post match handshake.