Region D

[mike salem]

This is from the VHSL meeting of 1/23/19. Region D is only showing 8 teams, down from 12.

Amherst
Blacksburg
EC Glass
Halifax (dropping from C5)
Jefferson Forest
Pulaski
Salem
GW Danville

Teams dropping to C3:

Bassett
Carroll
Charlottesville
LCA
William Byrd

Are all 8 going to make the playoffs or just 6 with 2 byes?
All the other Regions have 15 or 16 teams.

 

[Hilltoperhokie]

The final decision has not been made but the consensus is that only 2 schools have requested 6 teams with 1 and 2 getting byes. Smart money is on all 8 teams make the playoffs.

 

[falcettik]

From what I read on here, that list of teams seems to contain only solid or better programs. Take all eight!

 

[lyhsports]

Might as well take all 8. That's a good field of teams there.

 

[Hilltoperhokie]

Imo it seems like a good idea to take all 8 but when a team is 0-10 and makes the playoffs everybody is going to complain.

 

[Shabutie]

Test.

Imo it seems like a good idea to take all 8 but when a team is 0-10 and makes the playoffs everybody is going to complain.

Outside of a very slim chance of Halifax having a very bad year I can't see that happening for the foreseeable future.

 

[lyhsports]

Halifax has been improving every year since Throckmorton. they should be at worst 3-7 on a bad year.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

It's always been my opinion that teams that can't manage to win more games than they lose shouldn't qualify for the playoffs - in any sport or league. However, in this specific example of VHSL regions, I feel every region should just go ahead and send eight teams. If that means teams with losing records, or even with two or fewer wins qualify, so be it. I can't remember the proposed realignment, but I sincerely hope the VHSL addressed the situation in Class 1 Region B, where a couple of 0-10 teams automatically qualified for the playoffs simply because the region didn't include eight schools that play football.That doesn't seem right either, so I hope the VHSL managed to shift schools around to fix that problem. But, that's Class 1's headache.

Fortunes are always going to be shifting. Almost every school in those eight that will comprise Class 4 Region D has been up and down over the long haul. Even Halifax had its day in the sun, almost thirty years ago. Even among those eight, any given year will see one or two below .500. But - so what? People will complain, no matter what the system. To avoid any inequities - real or perceived - with first-round byes, they may as well include everyone. That would also ensure that the number of playoff games required to win the region is uniform across all four regions.

 

[freeatlast2013]

Pretty strong group with state titles from all teams at some point.
Halifax division 6 1991
Pulaski County division 6 1992
Jefferson Forest division 3 1992,1993
G.W. Danville 1944,1968 , 1982
Blacksburg 1977, 1989,2016
Amherst County 1995,2006,2007
E.C.Glass 1930,1933,1938,1988
Salem 1996,1998,1999,2000,2004,2005,2015,2016,2017

 

[Renaissance man]

Pretty strong group with state titles from all teams at some point.
Halifax division 6 1991
Pulaski County division 6 1992
Jefferson Forest division 3 1992,1993
G.W. Danville 1944,1968 , 1982
Blacksburg 1977, 1989,2016
Amherst County 1995,2006,2007
E.C.Glass 1930,1933,1938,1988
Salem 1996,1998,1999,2000,2004,2005,2015,2016,2017

ECG also won state championships in 1912, 1913, 1915, and unofficially in 1950 and 1961. Apprently state champs were voted on instead of the champ being crowned as a result of competition back in the day. Also to note....all but one of Glass' championships were before intergration. 1954 court case Brown vs. Board ended segragation. But I believe Glass didn't officially integrate with Dunbar HS and Glass HS coming together until 1972. All state championship wins before integration should be astrasized.

 

[ACFC]

No one should get byes unless all regions in all classes are doing the same format. Didn't the Dulles Region and 4A state champs Woodgrove have a first round bye? Not knocking this team and their accomplishment, but that is a huge advantage over the other regions.

 

[BleedingNavy]

No one should get byes unless all regions in all classes are doing the same format. Didn't the Dulles Region and 4A state champs Woodgrove have a first round bye? Not knocking this team and their accomplishment, but that is a huge advantage over the other regions.

I hate to the bearer of bad news, but its not the first time its happened since realignment in 2013. Personally, I think the two state finalist should be required to play the same number of playoff games. Have byes played a role in past championships? We surely have no way of proving it. Not going to take a shot at any state championship program, but the teams who have played less games than their opponents are 3-0. Woodgrove and Salem (4 straight final appearances) are consistent playoff contenders, so its just likely a coincidence.

2018 Woodgrove played 13 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games
2017 Salem played 15 total games. Opponent Louisa played 15 total games.
2016 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Dinwiddie played 15 total games.
2015 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games.
2014 Lake Taylor played 15 total games. Opponent Salem played 15 total games.
2013 Dinwiddie played 15 total games. Opponent Sherando played 15 total games.

 

[mike salem]

I hate to the bearer of bad news, but its not the first time its happened since realignment in 2013. Personally, I think the two state finalist should be required to play the same number of playoff games. Have byes played a role in past championships? We surely have no way of proving it. Not going to take a shot at any state championship program, but the teams who have played less games than their opponents are 3-0. Woodgrove and Salem (4 straight final appearances) are consistent playoff contenders, so its just likely a coincidence.

2018 Woodgrove played 13 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games
2017 Salem played 15 total games. Opponent Louisa played 15 total games.
2016 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Dinwiddie played 15 total games.
2015 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games.
2014 Lake Taylor played 15 total games. Opponent Salem played 15 total games.
2013 Dinwiddie played 15 total games. Opponent Sherando played 15 total games.

Salem 2015 actually only played 13 games on the field, because Carroll Co was a forfeit, but your point still stands. I agree that everyone should play the same number of games. I'm not sure that byes have influenced the championship as you said, (sample size is too small) but it just seems like 8 teams from every region would be the best scenario. Does anyone know what Region C will be doing this year?

 

[freeatlast2013]

I hate to the bearer of bad news, but its not the first time its happened since realignment in 2013. Personally, I think the two state finalist should be required to play the same number of playoff games. Have byes played a role in past championships? We surely have no way of proving it. Not going to take a shot at any state championship program, but the teams who have played less games than their opponents are 3-0. Woodgrove and Salem (4 straight final appearances) are consistent playoff contenders, so its just likely a coincidence. Lake Taylor lost because they could not kick.

2018 Woodgrove played 13 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games
2017 Salem played 15 total games. Opponent Louisa played 15 total games.
2016 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Dinwiddie played 15 total games.
2015 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games.
2014 Lake Taylor played 15 total games. Opponent Salem played 15 total games.
2013 Dinwiddie played 15 total games. Opponent Sherando played 15 total games.

While I agree Navy that teams should play the same number of games, I am not sure if that statistic means anything. Specifically, I will tell you what I know. When Salem lost to Lake Taylor the first time they had some key injuries but I am not saying that is the reason they lost. Lake Taylor had a better team. When Salem played Dinwiddie, without another game, two of their best players were off the team. When Salem played Louisa with the same number of games, most people I think, in the eastern part of the state thought Louisa was too physical. I think we tend to try and find reasons why one team won and another lost. In close games it is hard to tell. I do not think we can ever make things exactly even steven . In 2003 Salem only played 10 games and did not make the playoffs. They were 8-2. The state runnerup was William Fleming . Salem had beat them 26-7. Is that fair? Sometimes you do not get the job done. Also, what about travel? Salem had to travel to William and Mary to play both Dinwiddie and Louisa. I think the mileage should be exact.

 

[BleedingNavy]

I certainly was not pointing fingers at anyone or blaming losses on one or two less games. You guys know I respect Salem and Woodgrove. I said it was likely a coincidence, but its crazy to allow a region to decide if their teams get an advantage or not. Football is a physical sport and that's why the teams usually only play once a week. Ask the NFL why they have to limit the number of contest.

 

[wikki]

While I agree Navy that teams should play the same number of games, I am not sure if that statistic means anything. Specifically, I will tell you what I know. When Salem lost to Lake Taylor the first time they had some key injuries but I am not saying that is the reason they lost. Lake Taylor had a better team. When Salem played Dinwiddie, without another game, two of their best players were off the team. When Salem played Louisa with the same number of games, most people I think, in the eastern part of the state thought Louisa was too physical. I think we tend to try and find reasons why one team won and another lost. In close games it is hard to tell. I do not think we can ever make things exactly even steven . In 2003 Salem only played 10 games and did not make the playoffs. They were 8-2. The state runnerup was William Fleming . Salem had beat them 26-7. Is that fair? Sometimes you do not get the job done. Also, what about travel? Salem had to travel to William and Mary to play both Dinwiddie and Louisa. I think the mileage should be exact.

The place for games is planned in advance, so its hard for the mileage to be exact. They can't change locations because of who makes the playoffs.

 

[freeatlast2013]

The place for games is planned in advance, so its hard for the mileage to be exact. They can't change locations because of who makes the playoffs.

Number of games is predecided is it not?

 

[VolNation85]

Number of games is predecided is it not?

The number of games is not pre-decided. Sure everyone is supposed to play 10 regular season games but No one has anyway of knowing who will make the playoffs, who will be seeded where, or who wins those games. All of those things affect the number of games a team plays.

 

[freeatlast2013]

I guess the only way to fix the issue is to go to the lowest common denominator every year. Whatever the smallest region is we play that number of games. I guess that would be eight. I am not up on the committees but are not the number of teams to play in the playoffs decided by region? I guess if we have a flood and somebody does not play then we go to six or seven teams. As far as the place to play I was simply pointing out that some people had insinuated about having to travel further. I know the mileage cannot be equal but I was being facetious. Most of the time when there is more teams they are blowouts anyway. I think in West Virginia they just play whoever like 1-20 or 1-10 no matter where they are from. In otherwards if we decide 20 teams make playoffs in division 4 one would play 20 and so forth no matter the travel, although in the earlier rounds maybe they could pick a alternate place to play based upon teams locations during earlier rounds. Or we could just let Navy make the decision based upon what is good for Dinwiddie. Lol Trying to get Navy fired up.

 

[mike salem]

I guess the only way to fix the issue is to go to the lowest common denominator every year. Whatever the smallest region is we play that number of games. I guess that would be eight. I am not up on the committees but are not the number of teams to play in the playoffs decided by region? I guess if we have a flood and somebody does not play then we go to six or seven teams. As far as the place to play I was simply pointing out that some people had insinuated about having to travel further. I know the mileage cannot be equal but I was being facetious. Most of the time when there is more teams they are blowouts anyway. I think in West Virginia they just play whoever like 1-20 or 1-10 no matter where they are from. In otherwards if we decide 20 teams make playoffs in division 4 one would play 20 and so forth no matter the travel, although in the earlier rounds maybe they could pick a alternate place to play based upon teams locations during earlier rounds. Or we could just let Navy make the decision based upon what is good for Dinwiddie. Lol Trying to get Navy fired up.

WV is smaller than VA. The scenario you laid out for everyone playing 1-32 for instance in each class could require playoff trips traveling across state up to 8 hours each way. (This would drive up the expense) Meeting in the middle wouldn't bring in as much revenue as the current system. I think the current system works fine, but a little tinkering wouldn't hurt. Each region should have a uniform number of playoff participants so there would be no byes and each team would play the same number of games.

I think the VHSL learned a few years ago that West and East weren't enough divisions, so the 4 regions is the best system.

 

[BleedingNavy]

Fired up? Not over this discussion. Region B has been loaded for two years straight and it has gotten deeper with realignment. Not going to be easy making the playoffs period. I just believe each team should have to play the same amount of playoff games to make the finals. The VHSL alleged motto is fair and equitable competition. Can anyone tell me how byes are equitable if every region does not have them? For the record, I like how Region A and B sets things up and hope we continue this way no matter what Region D or C do. Yes, its brutal and it takes a 5 game run to win it all, but man its football at its best. Louisa's and Salems 2017 playoff runs may be two of the toughest ever in Class 4. Louisa beat Courtland (home), Monacan (away), Dinwiddie (away), Lafayette (home), and eventually lost to the juggernaut known as Salem (neutral) who also played 5 tough playoff games: Charlottesville (home), GW Danville (away), Blacksburg (away) Shernado (home) , and Louisa (nuetral). Now that my friends is fair and equitable. Woodgrove playing 13 total games (4 playoff games) and beating Lake Taylor who played 15 games (5 playoff games) not so. The prosecution rest. lol.....

 

[Hilltoperhokie]

Fired up? Not over this discussion. Region B has been loaded for two years straight and it has gotten deeper with realignment. Not going to be easy making the playoffs period. I just believe each team should have to play the same amount of playoff games to make the finals. The VHSL alleged motto is fair and equitable competition. Can anyone tell me how byes are equitable if every region does not have them? For the record, I like how Region A and B sets things up and hope we continue this way no matter what Region D or C do. Yes, its brutal and it takes a 5 game run to win it all, but man its football at its best. Louisa's and Salems 2017 playoff runs may be two of the toughest ever in Class 4. Louisa beat Courtland (home), Monacan (away), Dinwiddie (away), Lafayette (home), and eventually lost to the juggernaut known as Salem (neutral) who also played 5 tough playoff games: Charlottesville (home), GW Danville (away), Blacksburg (away) Shernado (home) , and Louisa (nuetral). Now that my friends is fair and equitable. Woodgrove playing 13 total games (4 playoff games) and beating Lake Taylor who played 15 games (5 playoff games) not so. The prosecution rest. lol.....

I understand your argument and would love for it to be fair but hate the fact that the regular season means nothing. Hypothetically a team could not play their starters all season and make the playoffs. I just think it is awful. I also don’t like the idea of an 0-10 team making the playoffs.

 

[BleedingNavy]

I understand your argument and would love for it to be fair but hate the fact that the regular season means nothing. Hypothetically a team could not play their starters all season and make the playoffs. I just think it is awful. I also don’t like the idea of an 0-10 team making the playoffs.

Very valid points. There really is no sound answer, but to be honest there are no real duds in Class 4 Region D. Halifax and Amherst have struggled a bit in the past few years, but everyone else has a solid record. I look for Amherst and Halifax to be better, so Region "D" is in great shape to have eight playoff teams. Teams in Region D (Realigned) had a combined 64-33 record in 2018.

 

[Hilltoperhokie]

Very valid points. There really is no sound answer, but to be honest there are no real duds in Class 4 Region D. Halifax and Amherst have struggled a bit in the past few years, but everyone else has a solid record. I look for Amherst and Halifax to be better, so Region "D" is in great shape to have eight playoff teams. Teams in Region D (Realigned) had a combined 64-33 record in 2018.

No doubt and the way it stands now 1-8 might not be a bad game. Right now every program is a powerhouse or a solid program on an upswing.

 

[BleedingNavy]

@Hilltoperhokie, I was curious so I ran the 2018 records for each class 4 region (2019 realignment) to see how many teams had losing records and zero wins. This does not show the actual region records for 2018. It encompasses the teams that will be in each region in 2019.

Region A 14 teams, 59-95 record (.383), 10 teams with losing records, 2 zero win teams.

Region B 16 teams, 85-84 record (.502), 9 teams with losing records, 1 zero win team.

Region C 15 teams (Park View did not play varsity last season), 88-66 record (.571), 4 teams with losing records, 1 zero win team.

Region D 8 teams, 64-33 record (.659), 1 team with a losing record, No team win zero wins (Amherst had 1 win).

 

[BleedingNavy]

@freeatlast2013, I ran the numbers for a Class 4 32 team tournament. using power points in 2018. In a 32 team field only 2 teams (Hanover and Huguenot had losing records). Interesting fact. Hanover did not make the Region B playoffs, but would make the 32 team field. Pretty equal on Region entrants as well. Region A = 8, Region B=9, Region C=8 and Region D=7. Gonna guess on the travel times times. Does not appear to be too bad. Some good games though. Possible second round matchups would be plain nasty.

Hypothetical 1st round matchups:

#1 Lafayette vs. #32 Hanover, 1 hour
#2 Blacksburg vs. #31 Churchland, 4 hours
#3 Lake Taylor vs. #30 Smithfield, 30 minutes
#4 Louisa vs. #29 Handley, 2 1/2 hours
#5 Monacan vs. #28 Huguenot, 5 minutes
#6 EC Glass vs. #27 William Byrd, 45 minutes
#7 Dinwiddie vs. #26 Liberty-Bealton, 3 hours
#8 Eastern View vs. #25 KIngs Fork, 2 hours
#9 Woodgrove vs. #24 Heritage Newport News, 2 hours
#10 Sherando vs. #23 Millbrook, 20 minutes
#11 Kettle Run vs #22 Powhatan, 2 hours
#12 Midlothian vs. #21 Jefferson Forrest, 1 hour
#13 Loudoun County vs. #20 Warhill, 2 1/2 hours
#14 Salem (Salem) vs. #19 Pulaski County, 30 min.
#15 Riverside vs. #18 Deep Creek, 2 1/2 hours
#16 GW Danville vs. #17 Courtland, 3 1/2 hours

 

[freeatlast2013]

@freeatlast2013, I ran the numbers for a Class 4 32 team tournament. using power points in 2018. In a 32 team field only 2 teams (Hanover and Huguenot had losing records). Interesting fact. Hanover did not make the Region B playoffs, but would make the 32 team field. Pretty equal on Region entrants as well. Region A = 8, Region B=9, Region C=8 and Region D=7. Gonna guess on the travel times times. Does not appear to be too bad. Some good games though. Possible second round matchups would be plain nasty.

Hypothetical 1st round matchups:

#1 Lafayette vs. #32 Hanover, 1 hour
#2 Blacksburg vs. #31 Churchland, 4 hours
#3 Lake Taylor vs. #30 Smithfield, 30 minutes
#4 Louisa vs. #29 Handley, 2 1/2 hours
#5 Monacan vs. #28 Huguenot, 5 minutes
#6 EC Glass vs. #27 William Byrd, 45 minutes
#7 Dinwiddie vs. #26 Liberty-Bealton, 3 hours
#8 Eastern View vs. #25 KIngs Fork, 2 hours
#9 Woodgrove vs. #24 Heritage Newport News, 2 hours
#10 Sherando vs. #23 Millbrook, 20 minutes
#11 Kettle Run vs #22 Powhatan, 2 hours
#12 Midlothian vs. #21 Jefferson Forrest, 1 hour
#13 Loudoun County vs. #20 Warhill, 2 1/2 hours
#14 Salem (Salem) vs. #19 Pulaski County, 30 min.
#15 Riverside vs. #18 Deep Creek, 2 1/2 hours
#16 GW Danville vs. #17 Courtland, 3 1/2 hours

You are doing a good Job

 

[falcettik]

@freeatlast2013, I ran the numbers for a Class 4 32 team tournament. using power points in 2018. In a 32 team field only 2 teams (Hanover and Huguenot had losing records). Interesting fact. Hanover did not make the Region B playoffs, but would make the 32 team field. Pretty equal on Region entrants as well. Region A = 8, Region B=9, Region C=8 and Region D=7. Gonna guess on the travel times times. Does not appear to be too bad. Some good games though. Possible second round matchups would be plain nasty.

Hypothetical 1st round matchups:

#1 Lafayette vs. #32 Hanover, 1 hour
#2 Blacksburg vs. #31 Churchland, 4 hours
#3 Lake Taylor vs. #30 Smithfield, 30 minutes
#4 Louisa vs. #29 Handley, 2 1/2 hours
#5 Monacan vs. #28 Huguenot, 5 minutes
#6 EC Glass vs. #27 William Byrd, 45 minutes
#7 Dinwiddie vs. #26 Liberty-Bealton, 3 hours
#8 Eastern View vs. #25 KIngs Fork, 2 hours
#9 Woodgrove vs. #24 Heritage Newport News, 2 hours
#10 Sherando vs. #23 Millbrook, 20 minutes
#11 Kettle Run vs #22 Powhatan, 2 hours
#12 Midlothian vs. #21 Jefferson Forrest, 1 hour
#13 Loudoun County vs. #20 Warhill, 2 1/2 hours
#14 Salem (Salem) vs. #19 Pulaski County, 30 min.
#15 Riverside vs. #18 Deep Creek, 2 1/2 hours
#16 GW Danville vs. #17 Courtland, 3 1/2 hours

This reflects exactly what I, personally, believe is the best format for a state playoff. However, anyone who has been on these forums, followed VA HS football, or knows how the VHSL functions knows this will NEVER happen. The geographic locations of schools and population dispersion around the state have conspired to create the reality we currently live in.

 

[mike salem]

Unfortunately the Class 1 & 2 schools are more spread out. This system would definitely work well for Class 5 & 6 though. Class 3 & 4 would be a bit of a drive if certain matchups took place.

This system would be good for new matchups, but gate would probably be lower for the longer drives.

 

[SFUWO]

Fired up? Not over this discussion. Region B has been loaded for two years straight and it has gotten deeper with realignment. Not going to be easy making the playoffs period. I just believe each team should have to play the same amount of playoff games to make the finals. The VHSL alleged motto is fair and equitable competition. Can anyone tell me how byes are equitable if every region does not have them? For the record, I like how Region A and B sets things up and hope we continue this way no matter what Region D or C do. Yes, its brutal and it takes a 5 game run to win it all, but man its football at its best. Louisa's and Salems 2017 playoff runs may be two of the toughest ever in Class 4. Louisa beat Courtland (home), Monacan (away), Dinwiddie (away), Lafayette (home), and eventually lost to the juggernaut known as Salem (neutral) who also played 5 tough playoff games: Charlottesville (home), GW Danville (away), Blacksburg (away) Shernado (home) , and Louisa (nuetral). Now that my friends is fair and equitable. Woodgrove playing 13 total games (4 playoff games) and beating Lake Taylor who played 15 games (5 playoff games) not so. The prosecution rest. lol.....

How does benefit games play out in all of this. Salem has played a benefit game now for several yrs. I understand that it does not count towards your record but it is an entire game. Do any of the teams out East play benefit games?

 

[BleedingNavy]

SFUWO, Good thought provoking question. Some do play benefit games, but not a lot. I know Dinwiddie never has. Most teams (all classes) play one or two jamboree type (3 team) scrimmages in our area, so there is really no need. Not trying to be disrespectful, but I clearly highlighted equal number of playoff games in my post above, so I am not sure how a benefit game fits into the equation. If I missed something (I am thick headed at times) I apologize. My stance is fairly clear. If one team has to play five to win the Ship then everybody should have to play five.

 

[SFUWO]

SFUWO, Good thought provoking question. Some do play benefit games, but not a lot. I know Dinwiddie never has. Most teams (all classes) play one or two jamboree type (3 team) scrimmages in our area, so there is really no need. Not trying to be disrespectful, but I clearly highlighted equal number of playoff games in my post above, so I am not sure how a benefit game fits into the equation. If I missed something (I am thick headed at times) I apologize. My stance is fairly clear. If one team has to play five to win the Ship then everybody should have to play five.

I raise this question because of the total games played complaint. Some teams participate in jamborees and benefit games. Team A still played 15 games but one did not count. Team B played 15 games because of 5 playoff games. This is if Team A and Team B meet in the final. Since 2014 I don't think any Finals team has played a close first round game. I have posted examples with scores in the past. So in reality its just a warm up game for the top teams. I personally don't like having a week off especially when the team is on a roll. Why not suit up against a patsy in the first round and keep the momentum going?

 

[SFUWO]

I hate to the bearer of bad news, but its not the first time its happened since realignment in 2013. Personally, I think the two state finalist should be required to play the same number of playoff games. Have byes played a role in past championships? We surely have no way of proving it. Not going to take a shot at any state championship program, but the teams who have played less games than their opponents are 3-0. Woodgrove and Salem (4 straight final appearances) are consistent playoff contenders, so its just likely a coincidence.

2018 Woodgrove played 13 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games
2017 Salem played 15 total games. Opponent Louisa played 15 total games.
2016 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Dinwiddie played 15 total games.
2015 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games.
2014 Lake Taylor played 15 total games. Opponent Salem played 15 total games.
2013 Dinwiddie played 15 total games. Opponent Sherando played 15 total games.

2018
Woodgrove had a bye and then beat Loudoun Co 28-21 in the second round. (played 3 wks earlier Woodgrove won 27-6)

Lake Taylor played Smithfield in the first round. Final score 63-21
played Kings Fork second round. Final 42-0

2016
Salem had a bye then beat Millbrook 59-14

Dinwiddie played Courtland. Final score 40-7
played Monacan second round. Final 58-18

2015
Salem had bye then beat Amherst second round 35-7

Lake Taylor played Denbigh in the first round. Final 55-14
played Kings Fork second round. Final 52-39 (LT with huge comeback)

The average score of the 3 state runner-ups was 53-14 in the first round.
My argument is that the extra game does not hurt the top teams.

 

[SFUWO]

I hate to the bearer of bad news, but its not the first time its happened since realignment in 2013. Personally, I think the two state finalist should be required to play the same number of playoff games. Have byes played a role in past championships? We surely have no way of proving it. Not going to take a shot at any state championship program, but the teams who have played less games than their opponents are 3-0. Woodgrove and Salem (4 straight final appearances) are consistent playoff contenders, so its just likely a coincidence.

2018 Woodgrove played 13 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games
2017 Salem played 15 total games. Opponent Louisa played 15 total games.
2016 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Dinwiddie played 15 total games.
2015 Salem played 14 total games (1 bye). Opponent Lake Taylor played 15 total games.
2014 Lake Taylor played 15 total games. Opponent Salem played 15 total games.
2013 Dinwiddie played 15 total games. Opponent Sherando played 15 total games.

Sherando could have had 3 byes and Dinwiddie still would have won that game.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

In my humble opinion, whatever benefit a team might receive - and no one has proven that there is a benefit, in every case - from a first-round bye applies only in the first game that team actually plays. Once a team has come back and played a game, they are on equal footing. Especially true by the time of the state final.

Consider 2016. Had Salem not gotten a bye, they would have played a hapless fourteenth-seed, and probably won along the lines of 56-14, or worse. [Hell, they beat Millbrook that bad, and Millbrook was the sixth seed.] Salem’s starters would have played perhaps half the game in that hypothetical first round matchup.

By the time Salem played Dinwiddie, they were playing their fourth game in a row. The starters would have been on their fourth-and-a-half game, in the scenario I just presented. I don’t see any kind of argument that can be made to convince me that the outcome would have been different against Dinwiddie if Salem’s starters had been forced to play two more quarters against a weak opponent one month prior to the state final. Frankly, that seems to be straw-grasping, to me. But again, that is merely my opinion.

I think the primary benefit of a bye is to allow more time for the return of injured players. That could be important in an evenly-matched game. I don’t remember if Salem got any key players back from injury against Millbrook; I don’t think that was the case. But again, Salem’s hypothetical first-round matchup in 2016 would not have been anything close to evenly-matched, so I think the Spartans could have managed to get by that fourteenth seed without a starter or two.

Let’s not forget why 4A North/West created that bye situation to begin with. It wasn’t to create some supposed advantage over 4A South/East. In both 2013 and 2014, the first-round games between seeds 1-4 and seeds 13-16 were, almost without exception, massive blowouts that were very poorly attended (which in turn was partly due to the fact that 4A North/West was the most geographically spread-out region). Bottom line: we were getting crappy games that were losing money. That is why those games went away.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Two more things to point out:

Salem enjoyed its largest margin of victory in a state championship game in a year in which it played five playoff games, without receiving a bye.

And, the NFL - the ultimate big business - has a format in which the top two teams in each conference receive playoff byes. If byes were really that much of an unfair advantage, does anyone think for a minute that all the owners wouldn’t scream bloody murder to eliminate them?

Tempest in a teapot, people. Byes don’t really have a major impact - especially in the VHSL football playoffs.

 

[Gunz41]

It would be a lot worse for us little schools. If I remember correctly, when we had the East and West format a couple years ago, there was a 1st round game between #1 vs #16 that was like 6 hrs. A game that was over after a couple minutes. So just imagine if they weren't split then.

It was actually Region B in 1a. And there was ALOT of uproar about the #1 seed in B getting a BYE. There wasn't even a Challenge in the region. They should have went to 4, but then all the other regions would have been upset. That looks to be fixed now, but I am a 2a guy. It just looked impossible for that region because a few were charter schools and 1 or 2 didn't play a "full" schedule. So there was 2 0-10 teams

 

[Mic Honcho]

Question for Bleeding Navy what is the Outlook
For the Generals this Year and what are your thoughts on the GW match up

 

[bigboi1991]

Question for Bleeding Navy what is the Outlook
For the Generals this Year and what are your thoughts on the GW match up

@BleedingNavy

 

[BleedingNavy]

I apologize for the delay, but I don't check out preps everyday like I used to a couple of years ago. I responded a few weeks ago to a post about Dinwiddie vs. GW on the "GW Players Offers" thread. I have copied it here for your review.

"You guys must know something about Dinwiddie that the General faithful do not. GW Danville should give us all we can handle and more if they have the studs you guys are speaking of. We lost our qb, best two running backs, 2 o lineman and top receiver on offense. On defense we once again are replacing our entire linebacking group. In all honesty our interior line play on both sides of the ball should be good. If we get sound qb play the Generals should compete for a top 4 spot in region b. Our first three games are brutal. GW Danville (4), North Stafford (5) and Massapponax (6). Cant afford to lose 2 or 3 with a tough district schedule facing us this year. Thomas Dale, Hopewell, and Petersburg are all going to be very good. Petersburg's Meziah Scott is one of the best qb's in the Richmond area and class 3."

I am not saying Dinwiddie is going to be bad, but in all honesty, my Generals will be very young and sound quarterback play will be necessary if the Generals want to extend their playoff streak. Hilton, has the ability and actually may be a better passer than Pope, but how do you replace a two year starter who did everything. Heck, I realize every team loses players (not crying), but we have rebuilt our defense for the past two seasons and it has showed in both region b finals.

For those that know me and read my post, you know how much respect I have for GW Danville athletics. As a coaches kid I saw GW play a lot and actually played against some of their best squads ever (1980, 81, and 82). The Eagles get a bad rap on Preps, because "DSH" hyped or over hyped them (depending on your opinion) and GW subsequently struggled in the playoffs. Personally, I don't fault the man, because true fans are supposed to believe in their teams. I actually miss DSH and his passion. As far as the actual game goes I will give you a brief synopsis.

Both teams will be starting new qb's. It sounds like both teams will have sound interior lines. We know both teams will have athletes on the field and they have similar offenses, so what are the keys to victory?

#1 Defense!!!!!! Can Dinwiddie stop the Eagles running game and vice versa. Due to GW's proven backs, alleged "monster" size on the o line and the Generals linebacker corps rebuild I would give GW the edge.

#2 Home field advantage! Playing at Dinwiddie is not easy. I realize most do not believe home field advantage has an effect in high school, but very few teams win on the Generals turf. Since realignment (2013), only Hopewell (2018), Louisa (2017), Hanover (2015), Thomas Dale (2014) and Monacan (2014) have walked away from our field victorious. Edge Dinwiddie.

#3 Coaching! Not sure about GW, but Mills well conditioned teams don't lose many August games and fair well in the heat. Since both offenses are similar finding an extra wrinkle or two will be important. I like my guy (Mills), but can't discredit Coach Anderson who is a proven winner (Kinston High School (NC) and GW Danville). Draw......

#4 Motivation! With a tough first five games Dinwiddie needs this win badly. Lose and the wheels could fall off quickly. GW would like to jump start their season with a huge out of region win. A victory would surely booster the Eagles confidence before facing perennial powers J Forrest and EC Glass. Draw....

Who knows its way too early to tell really. lol

Addendum: After reading @olemissboy30 post in "tells us about your teams" thread it looks like GW will crush Dinwiddie by 30. I am not being sarcastic. If the Eagles have that much talent they better win state or the coach should be fired. GW hasn't had a plethora of power 5 studs since 1981. Maybe one of the former Class five bad boys Broad Run or Tuscarora can upset GW in the semi's. Just a little hint and something to think about The Eagles may just be legit, because Preps usually has 2 or 3 GW fans who post. Now they are coming out of the woodwork?????? Just food for thought.