Should Vhsl really look at 1a and consider reclassification ?

[trutiger16]

1. Riverheads 474
2. Essex 439
3. Galax 400
4. Chilhowie 414

Any thoughts about reclassification of schools it’s clear with the current format, smaller schools will have an tougher shot at competing.

 

[trutiger16]

With Galax being the exception, the other programs were all 2a.

 

[MT FAN 91]

With Galax being the exception, the other programs were all 2a.

How is that?

 

[trutiger16]

How is that?

Mt. Fan first i don’t want to come off at being negative but it’s clear what is happening, the small town communities will never have a fair shot if this trend continues. Especially out west with the smaller schools.

 

[TrojanFan22560]

They were all single A, Division 2 not AA. The bigger schools in every division have an advantage but you have to draw the line somewhere. If Sussex had won, would you be crying about this?

 

[trutiger16]

They were all single A, Division 2 not AA. The bigger schools in every division have an advantage but you have to draw the line somewhere. If Sussex had won, would you be crying about this?

Here we go, this has nothing to do with Sussex, factually numbers and trends tell the story, Essex and Sussex played a classic game on Saturday their is no bitterness from me about that. Wishing you and your community the best versus Riverheads.

 

[MT FAN 91]

Mt. Fan first i don’t want to come off at being negative but it’s clear what is happening, the small town communities will never have a fair shot if this trend continues. Especially out west with the smaller schools.

I can see what you're saying but their still has to be a cutoff line somewhere

 

[trutiger16]

I can see what you're saying but their still has to be a cutoff line somewhere

Yeah I understand it has to be an cutoff , but there shouldn’t be an 100 plus difference and some cases more, plus there is actually proven fact that some programs move down for that advantage.

 

[naildriver91]

Year in year out no "smaller" schools won't have a shot at winning a championship. However if you look at the championship count through the years you may be surprised to find that the smaller schools have way more under there belts then the "bigger" schools. Sussex 2 Galax 1 Altavista 3 Chilhowie 1. So forth and so on. Someone will always be bigger. There is no way to align schools so there all even. The whole point is there will always be someone on the bubble. If they are playing well people complain there to big. If they suck nobody says a word. There are other 400 plus schools that don't win many games but nobody complains about them being in 1A.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

So it's a huge disadvantage for a 325 to play a 450 but it's not for a 451 to play a 750-800

Like Cris Carter says --- CMON MAN

 

[CallMeCoach19]

I think the system is about as good as it is going to get. The number has to be somewhere, and though many schools teeter right on the line, that is going to happen no matter what. I have heard Giles folks talking for a while now about how they aren't a far cry from being 1A, but most of them (but certainly not all) just go with what is set in place. I would imagine Radford is having a similar feeling right now at the bottom of 2A. Unless you want a division with only 10 schools in it, and a "championship" that doesn't really mean anything, it needs to stay how it is.

 

[b.Di3_2016RU]

Yeah I understand it has to be an cutoff , but there shouldn’t be an 100 plus difference and some cases more, plus there is actually proven fact that some programs move down for that advantage.

There’s over a 100 student difference in every single class. 2A ranges from 476-775 or so. What is the difference?

 

[peck_7]

Yeah I understand it has to be an cutoff , but there shouldn’t be an 100 plus difference and some cases more, plus there is actually proven fact that some programs move down for that advantage.

You do realize that there are only 54 schools in 1A....And not all of them have football teams....?

 

[trutiger16]

You do realize that there are only 54 schools in 1A....And not all of them have football teams....?

No I wasn’t aware but thanks

 

[rhsgrad]

Yeah I understand it has to be an cutoff , but there shouldn’t be an 100 plus difference and some cases more, plus there is actually proven fact that some programs move down for that advantage.

So that means we have to look at all classifications. Buffalo Gap has 509 students and had to compete against Central Woodstock with 773 students. That is a whopping 264 student difference. We would have 3 state champions in Division 1 alone if we used your 100 student difference.

 

[TrojanFan22560]

The current system is better than the old one. Teams aren't allowed to play up or down, they play in whatever classification the numbers fall in. Trutiger, you may be unaware but before the new system was put in place, the classes were split up as follows. Single A division 1 and 2. AA divisions 3 and 4. AAA divisions 5 and 6. Divisions were broken down by region though, not state. The bigger half of teams in a region were in the higher division, while the smaller half were in the lower division. So you had a school like Buffalo Gap who had over 600 students at the time playing in Division 1 (Region B had the biggest single A schools on average, Buffalo Gap was a small school in Region B) playing Colonial Beach in the state semi finals, and we know how small Colonial Beach is. That doesn't happen now.

In my opinion, 6 classes in Va is too many. I think that we should have just gone to a 4A system. 6 classes for football isn't so bad, but it's terrible for other sports, especially those like wrestling where not all schools have teams in the first place.

 

[peck_7]

6 classes is a lot, even for football.

 

[trutiger16]

The current system is better than the old one. Teams aren't allowed to play up or down, they play in whatever classification the numbers fall in. Trutiger, you may be unaware but before the new system was put in place, the classes were split up as follows. Single A division 1 and 2. AA divisions 3 and 4. AAA divisions 5 and 6. Divisions were broken down by region though, not state. The bigger half of teams in a region were in the higher division, while the smaller half were in the lower division. So you had a school like Buffalo Gap who had over 600 students at the time playing in Division 1 (Region B had the biggest single A schools on average, Buffalo Gap was a small school in Region B) playing Colonial Beach in the state semi finals, and we know how small Colonial Beach is. That doesn't happen now.

In my opinion, 6 classes in Va is too many. I think that we should have just gone to a 4A system. 6 classes for football isn't so bad, but it's terrible for other sports, especially those like wrestling where not all schools have teams in the first place.

Thanks ! Pulling for your Trojans to handle business Saturday, your # 78 is the key for Essex.

 

[CallMeCoach19]

I agree with that and wonder why more sports don't combine classifications? Girls Soccer 1A/2A are combined. That could work for other sports as well. That way if the number of schools and interest is there for 6 then use it. If not, go the way of Men's Volleyball. (Do they have 2 or 3 champs)

 

[Maroons67]

1. Riverheads 474
2. Essex 439
3. Galax 400
4. Chilhowie 414

Any thoughts about reclassification of schools it’s clear with the current format, smaller schools will have an tougher shot at competing.

why does Riverheads always seem to have 474 students every year?

 

[RedPrideNation_RollPride]

There is a conspiracy with the VHSL and multiple AD’s. It’s better to not ask too many questions though. People have disappeared over this. It’s almost like investigating the Clintons. Just roll with it.

 

[Xcross]

474.5

 

[Optimal62]

So with all the talk about enrollment I wanted to research it further. According to propublica which is the institute that schools have to report their enrollment for programs such as in this case funding for free and reduced lunches.
Riverheads enrollment since 2012 has averaged from a high of 590 in 2012 to a low of 478. The past four years average has been 488 with a total of 519 including special needs children.

I understand this is a touchy subject. Two points of views here.
1. Is more numbers give you an advantage when it comes to depth. Some schools are fielding teams with very few players going both ways and it takes a toll on teams that are have players playing both ways with very little breaks.
2. Point two you line up your best 11 and I'll line up mine and let's have at it.

Again this is just a post for clarity not throwing shade on any team or anyone. I hope it helps.

 

[trutiger16]

So with all the talk about enrollment I wanted to research it further. According to propublica which is the institute that schools have to report their enrollment for programs such as in this case funding for free and reduced lunches.
Riverheads enrollment since 2012 has averaged from a high of 590 in 2012 to a low of 478. The past four years average has been 488 with a total of 519 including special needs children.

I understand this is a touchy subject. Two points of views here.
1. Is more numbers give you an advantage when it comes to depth. Some schools are fielding teams with very few players going both ways and it takes a toll on teams that are have players playing both ways with very little breaks.
2. Point two you line up your best 11 and I'll line up mine and let's have at it.

Again this is just a post for clarity not throwing shade on any team or anyone. I hope it helps.

Do they use their best 11 in 2a ? If so why move down lol

 

[TrojanFan22560]

Do they use their best 11 in 2a ? If so why move down lol

A school doesn't just say, "hey let's play Single A this year". VHSL put the schools in their class. If a school reports wrong numbers that's another thing, but idk if that's even possible.

 

[Optimal62]

Do they use their best 11 in 2a ? If so why move down lol

Again I was just posting some info. And was referring to the two different thought processes I have seen on here on the subject.

 

[Optimal62]

A school doesn't just say, "hey let's play Single A this year". VHSL put the schools in their class. If a school reports wrong numbers that's another thing, but idk if that's even possible.

Agreed, although Grayson County got in trouble a while back for reporting false enrollment to get more funding from the state. They got caught and had to give the money back

 

[trutiger16]

A school doesn't just say, "hey let's play Single A this year". VHSL put the schools in their class. If a school reports wrong numbers that's another thing, but idk if that's even possible.

It’s possible it’s happening at the moment

 

[RedPrideNation_RollPride]

CONSPIRACY, it really is that simple.

Although with that line of thinking I would have thought that we would be more of a factor in other sports. I suppose it is just about football and cheating the system to potentially win chips in that one sport. I guess I am just being naive.

 

[longtimerhsfan]

The real question is why this subject is brought up on here an average of about once a week. It should be obvious by now that if there were anything to it, it would have been dealt with a long time ago.

You people that complain about too big a discrepancy between School A and School B within the same classification just don't seem to get the fact that it HAS to be that way. If you are going to set limits for any given classification, such as Class 1 being up to 500 or whatever it is, how can it be helped if one school has 498 kids and another school only has 225? What are you going to do, make kids travel 200 miles to go to school just to even out the numbers?

The VHSL does the best they can given the geography of this state and if any of you have specific, documented claims that any school is reporting false numbers, then for Pete's sake, stop whining about it on here and report it to them. This really IS getting old.

There are plenty of stories out there of smaller schools winning state championships. Stick by your team and it will happen for you in one sport or another.

 

[Optimal62]

Someone came up with a great solve for something albeit different but similar for Carroll County. Cc is a big school numbers wise, and was having to travel far away to play in their class. And was getting dominated in games against Salem, and the likes. This was not only bad for the moral of the kids but was a huge financial burden on the school, due to the travel expense and the fact that no one would come to travel to Carroll's home games to just see them get dismantled.
So VHSL let them play in the Mtn empire with local schools during regular season, but they have to move up playoff time.
Now, lol if Carroll starts winning people may start complaining

 

[TrojanFan22560]

Someone came up with a great solve for something albeit different but similar for Carroll County. Cc is a big school numbers wise, and was having to travel far away to play in their class. And was getting dominated in games against Salem, and the likes. This was not only bad for the moral of the kids but was a huge financial burden on the school, due to the travel expense and the fact that no one would come to travel to Carroll's home games to just see them get dismantled.
So VHSL let them play in the Mtn empire with local schools during regular season, but they have to move up playoff time.
Now, lol if Carroll starts winning people may start complaining

This already happens, there are plenty of mixed districts.

 

[RedPrideNation_RollPride]

@longtimerhsfan there is no reasoning with the ones that want to complain. So I choose to just antagonize as well. Within the 5% or whatever doesn’t seem to matter either.

And for you @trutiger16, you have a very good football program that you should support and be very proud of. I won’t talk bad about them in any way. What I will say is that you continue to refer to our time in 2A as though it was a failure. We had four runs in the playoffs of varying degrees. Some similar to Sussex’s run in 1A minus a Chanpionship game. Celebrate what you have accomplished and realize that the whole world isn’t against the smaller schools in 1A just like they are not against the smallest in any other division.

 

[naildriver91]

Augusta county as a whole has a wonderful program. Riverheads is not the only game in town so to speak. If smaller schools really want to better there programs perhaps look at your youth league programs first then coaching staffs and finally at there community involvement. Its not about the size of the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog.

Better yet head down to Augusta and talk to some coaches and A.D.s in that area and see what there doing different. It may not happen over night but I have no doubt it would benefit a lot of programs.

Have you ever noticed how You never really here much talk on here about this player or that player from Riverheads. The reason is because its not about individuals its about a TEAM!!! Something to think about folks.

 

[trutiger16]

@longtimerhsfan there is no reasoning with the ones that want to complain. So I choose to just antagonize as well. Within the 5% or whatever doesn’t seem to matter either.

And for you @trutiger16, you have a very good football program that you should support and be very proud of. I won’t talk bad about them in any way. What I will say is that you continue to refer to our time in 2A as though it was a failure. We had four runs in the playoffs of varying degrees. Some similar to Sussex’s run in 1A minus a Chanpionship game. Celebrate what you have accomplished and realize that the whole world isn’t against the smaller schools in 1A just like they are not against the smallest in any other division.

Why are you making this a Sussex issue it’s not about Sussex, what’s going on now is surely harming the integrity of 1a. Once again if you attack me dont cry if I attack back.

 

[trutiger16]

Augusta county as a whole has a wonderful program. Riverheads is not the only game in town so to speak. If smaller schools really want to better there programs perhaps look at your youth league programs first then coaching staffs and finally at there community involvement. Its not about the size of the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog.

Better yet head down to Augusta and talk to some coaches and A.D.s in that area and see what there doing different. It may not happen over night but I have no doubt it would benefit a lot of programs.

Have you ever noticed how You never really here much talk on here about this player or that player from Riverheads. The reason is because its not about individuals its about a TEAM!!! Something to think about folks.

Seems to me the success you were after only could be achieved in 1a

 

[trutiger16]

CONSPIRACY, it really is that simple.

Although with that line of thinking I would have thought that we would be more of a factor in other sports. I suppose it is just about football and cheating the system to potentially win chips in that one sport. I guess I am just being naive.

Football is King lol yeah stop being naive

 

[naildriver91]

Seems to me the success you were after only could be achieved in 1a

Yes my program has enjoyed success in 1A. It has been awhile since we have won a championship in football but it will come back around. If not oh well. I will continue to support them. Because I love the game

1A is the only division we have ever played in. I have no connection with Riverheads or Augusta county. I do however know a good program when I see one. I also don't try to make excuses for why my team gets knocked out of playoffs.

Most fans of high school sports know the odds are against you winning championships year in and year out. Some however have a hard time excepting it.

 

[trutiger16]

Yes my program has enjoyed success in 1A. It has been awhile since we have won a championship in football but it will come back around. If not oh well. I will continue to support them. Because I love the game

1A is the only division we have ever played in. I have no connection with Riverheads or Augusta county. I do however know a good program when I see one. I also don't try to make excuses for why my team gets knocked out of playoffs.

Most fans of high school sports know the odds are against you winning championships year in and year out. Some however have a hard time excepting it.

I never make excuses but the evidence is overwhelming

 

[naildriver91]

Here is the address to VHSL please take said evidence to them personally. I am sure they will be happy to hear of anyone cheating the system. If not then perhaps your A.D. can proceed with legal action.


VHSL 1642 State Farm Blvd, Charlottesville, VA 22911