3A Schools Playing Up in the 804

[flsnupe]

For the life of me, I do not understand why Hopewell, Colonial Heights, Petersburg, George Wythe, Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, and Huguenot are not in their own district and play each other in all sports. Getting killed by the larger schools is good for no one. Just do not understand the thought process of our VHSL and local leaders. Its should be about fairness in addition to location.

 

[BleedingNavy]

Money, money, money! The Dinwiddie @ Hopewell game drew a huge vistors gate. Plus the local rivalry factor. The central district is composed of 3 3a's, 1 4a, 3 5'a's and 1 6a. This is how things would look under your proposed plan.

3a. Hopewell, Colonial Heights, Petersburg, John Marshall, George Wythe, TJ and John Marshall (same as you have).

4a. Powhatan, Midlothian, Monacan, Dinwiddie, Huguenot

5a. Matoaca, Prince George, LC Bird, Meadowbrook,

6a. Clover Hill, Cosby, Manchester, Thomas Dale, James River

As you can see there are not enough southside teams to make an entire district by level for the higher level teams. Who would they play and stay within their travel budget. If 3's playing up is bad for you why would it be okay for the other divisions to play up. Also you would likely have to play someone twice (playoffs) and no one wants to do that in the early rounds.

 

[bulldog1150]

Money, money, money! The Dinwiddie @ Hopewell game drew a huge vistors gate. Plus the local rivalry factor. The central district is composed of 3 3a's, 1 4a, 3 5'a's and 1 6a. This is how things would look under your proposed plan.

3a. Hopewell, Colonial Heights, Petersburg, John Marshall, George Wythe, TJ and John Marshall (same as you have).

4a. Powhatan, Midlothian, Monacan, Dinwiddie, Huguenot

5a. Matoaca, Prince George, LC Bird, Meadowbrook,

6a. Clover Hill, Cosby, Manchester, Thomas Dale, James River

As you can see there are not enough southside teams to make an entire district by level for the higher level teams. Who would they play and stay within their travel budget. If 3's playing up is bad for you why would it be okay for the other divisions to play up. Also you would likely have to play someone twice (playoffs) and no one wants to do that in the early rounds.

City of Richmond politics is the simple answer to the original question, but nothing is simple. These schools are also basketball driven.

I would like to see a district that simply combines the 5A and 6A schools into one 9 team district. That leaves them 2 non district games.

The other district could have all the 4A schools plus Petersburg and Hopewell. Then make a 3A district with the city schools, plus Maggie Walker, Colonial Heights and Armstrong.

Just my two cents

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Major mis-matches are primarily, (but not exclusively), in football. Districts serve a really good purpose with respect to scheduling. But, especially in football it gets ugly. I have been an advocate of schools stepping out of district and replacing the gross mis-matches with games that make more sense.

There is one issue with this idea, though. That being the gate. Here is but one example. The Central District splits the gate after expenses. Colonial Heights and Dinwiddie is almost never a competitive game. But, Dinwiddie travels extremely well so the away gate is a big gate for most games. And the Dinwiddie home gate is usually extra large because it is often our homecoming. CH would be giving up many thousands of dollars if they stepped out of district to schedule a more competitive game, in place of Dinwiddie.

And this is but one game on their schedule like this. Thomas Dale is similar, as is Matoaca. Sadly, the economics have to be a strong consideration.

 

[BleedingNavy]

Good points bulldog and DP. Bulldog, I like your idea, but it would kill some of the better teams playoff points, plus it would make it extremely difficult to find out of district games.

I know we (Dinwiddie) struggle every two years to find 4a or better non-district games. Devils (LT), Danville (GW) and Hamspear (Sherando) have expressed similar problems. The above noted teams play one out of state team and Sherando 3 to complete their schedule.

Another point is non-revenue sports. The Richmond City schools are horrible and often show up an hour late for a game or not at all (bus problems).

I like DP's idea. The higher level schools should be able to opt out for football.

 

[obguthr]

A 4A system is best, but I won't beat that dead horse. Since we already have 6A, at least organize districts so that teams are not two or more classes apart. 6A teams should not be in districts with 3A teams. PH-Roanoke, Franklin County, and Rappahannock County, because they are isolated from similarly sized schools, should be the only exceptions. Here's a radical reorganization for the Greater Richmond area schools:

District 1 (3A):
Marshall,John
Walker,M.Gov.
Jefferson,ThomaS(R)
Wythe,George(R)
Armstrong

District 2 (3A/4A):
ColonialHeights
Petersburg
Hopewell
Dinwiddie
Monacan
Powhatan
Midlothian

District 3 (4A/5A):
Huguenot
Hanover
Tucker,J.R.
DeepRun
Hermitage
Lee-Davis
Meadowbrook
Atlee

District 4 (5A/6A):
Henrico
GlenAllen
Freeman,Douglas
Varina
HighlandSprings
Godwin,Mills
JamesRiver(C)

District 5 (5A/6A):
Prince George
Bird,L.C.
Matoaca
CloverHill
Manchester
Cosby
Dale,Thomas

 

[DinwiddieProud]

If I have learned nothing else over the years, I have learned that districts are "sacred cows". There is always chatter about what can be done to make things better but, for a variety of reasons, these potential improvements never gain a foothold.

 

[EPJr]

MLW GS is AA
as should JM and TJ if you only look at raw attendance fiqures

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

MLW GS is AA
as should JM and TJ if you only look at raw attendance fiqures

Yes you are right. If JM was 2a in basketball, it would be so unfair . Them and Wythe would both dominate and probably lose a lot of talent to Henrico and Bird because of competition issues. At least in 3a they can play Hopewell, IC Norcom, Spotswood, etc. Basketball is key for Marshall.

 

[GilliamRatings]

For the life of me, I do not understand why Hopewell, Colonial Heights, Petersburg, George Wythe, Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, and Huguenot are not in their own district and play each other in all sports. Getting killed by the larger schools is good for no one. Just do not understand the thought process of our VHSL and local leaders. Its should be about fairness in addition to location.

I'll be frank with you here. It's about race and money. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Major mis-matches are primarily, (but not exclusively), in football. Districts serve a really good purpose with respect to scheduling. But, especially in football it gets ugly. I have been an advocate of schools stepping out of district and replacing the gross mis-matches with games that make more sense.

There is one issue with this idea, though. That being the gate. Here is but one example. The Central District splits the gate after expenses. Colonial Heights and Dinwiddie is almost never a competitive game. But, Dinwiddie travels extremely well so the away gate is a big gate for most games. And the Dinwiddie home gate is usually extra large because it is often our homecoming. CH would be giving up many thousands of dollars if they stepped out of district to schedule a more competitive game, in place of Dinwiddie.

And this is but one game on their schedule like this. Thomas Dale is similar, as is Matoaca. Sadly, the economics have to be a strong consideration.

Out west here the 5A and 6A schools get popped in entire districts of 2A's, 3A's and 4A's and the results are pretty ugly in all sports. I'd really love to see districts back to everybody is the same class (but it's impractical with 6 classes). If we had 4 classes (or even 5) it could be done.

If they tried making districts of entirely 5A schools for next year, my school's district would likely be: Orange, Harrisonburg, Albemarle, Patrick Henry-Roanoke, William Fleming and Halifax. I actually wouldn't mind, myself, and in the old 3A system we always had some crazy district out west like this. Still, I think most of the people at these schools would complain about these districts, especially when it's so much fun to just pound the smaller schools all year long and fill up that trophy case with district titles in tiddlywinks and disc golf.

 

[pawfan]

Out west here the 5A and 6A schools get popped in entire districts of 2A's, 3A's and 4A's and the results are pretty ugly in all sports. I'd really love to see districts back to everybody is the same class (but it's impractical with 6 classes). If we had 4 classes (or even 5) it could be done.

If they tried making districts of entirely 5A schools for next year, my school's district would likely be: Orange, Harrisonburg, Albemarle, Patrick Henry-Roanoke, William Fleming and Halifax. I actually wouldn't mind, myself, and in the old 3A system we always had some crazy district out west like this. Still, I think most of the people at these schools would complain about these districts, especially when it's so much fun to just pound the smaller schools all year long and fill up that trophy case with district titles in tiddlywinks and disc golf.

It was called the Western District and stretched from Charlottesville to Danville to Roanoke to Lynchburg to Halifax.

 

[pawfan]

Yes you are right. If JM was 2a in basketball, it would be so unfair . Them and Wythe would both dominate and probably lose a lot of talent to Henrico and Bird because of competition issues. At least in 3a they can play Hopewell, IC Norcom, Spotswood, etc. Basketball is key for Marshall.

Wythe would still be 3A. And yes, JM would dominate in BB....but nothing else!

 

[GilliamRatings]

I think at one time there were two districts: Western and Valley and then they merged into the Western Valley as teams dropped down. There were some phenomenal teams coming out of those districts. Glass was always good, GW, Pulaski and that one Halifax state champion team that was about as good as anything I've ever seen. I think Salem and Amherst were even up there for a couple of seasons. I suppose Heritage, Franklin County, Patrick Henry, William Fleming, and Albemarle were all parts of that district at one time or another. Who am I forgetting? I feel like there were more.

 

[maroons1]

Roanoke Valley was
Northside, Salem, Cave Spring, William Fleming, PH-Roanoke, Pulaski County, and Franklin County

Western District was
E.C. Glass, Heritage-Lynchburg, Halifax, GW-Danville, Albemarle, and later Amherst

 

[maroons1]

3As do not have to play 6A schools if they want to. Wythe could drop James River, Manchester, Cosby, and Clover Hill, and they could play smaller schools, and they would still be eligible for the playoffs.

 

[obguthr]

Roanoke Valley was
Northside, Salem, Cave Spring, William Fleming, PH-Roanoke, Pulaski County, and Franklin County

Western District was
E.C. Glass, Heritage-Lynchburg, Halifax, GW-Danville, Albemarle, and later Amherst

I'd actually like to see a return of the old Roanoke Valley District with the following teams:

PH-Roanoke
William Fleming
William Byrd
Lord Botetourt
Northside

Pulaski and Salem should stay in the River Ridge to keep that district's membership up. Cave Spring and Hidden Valley should move to the Blue Ridge, but could also fit in the Roanoke Valley.

 

[pawfan]

Roanoke Valley was
Northside, Salem, Cave Spring, William Fleming, PH-Roanoke, Pulaski County, and Franklin County

Western District was
E.C. Glass, Heritage-Lynchburg, Halifax, GW-Danville, Albemarle, and later Amherst

You are correct! My Dad refereed a good number of Western District games in the past! I kinda thought that the Roanoke schools had their own league!