Did you go to the Bacon Festival in September? It was INCREDIBLE!!!!
VHSL moving title games to Wm&Mary
- Thread starter Hampton Roads 6
- Start date
So if W&M is the site, how would they accomadate the possibility of a home playoff game?
But then, doesn't the same possibility exist at LU?
Theoretically yes but historically it doesn't seem likely. Last year the FCS quarterfinals were held the weekend of the VHSL championships. LU generally hasn't gone that far.
As long as it's only the D.3 and 4 games it's doable. They do play some FCS playoff games on Friday nights.
Yeah, I didn't even think about Friday nights.
I'm sure the vast majority of the east teams will be happy, if the venue is moved to Williamsburg.
The long road trip sure didn't bother the Magna Vista fans last year when they went down and played Phoebus. They outnumbered the Phoebus fans. And I'm guessing that was at least a four hour trip.
Honestly, for me, it's just about the same travel distance either way. So, I have no complaints. I know the Williamsburg area better, but I lose any hope of ever sneaking up to see Wikki and getting some real food. So it's a wash with me.
I'm sure the vast majority of the east teams will be happy, if the venue is moved to Williamsburg.
The long road trip sure didn't bother the Magna Vista fans last year when they went down and played Phoebus. They outnumbered the Phoebus fans. And I'm guessing that was at least a four hour trip.
Honestly, for me, it's just about the same travel distance either way. So, I have no complaints. I know the Williamsburg area better, but I lose any hope of ever sneaking up to see Wikki and getting some real food. So it's a wash with me.
If I were a high school coach, I would not take my team to the Redskins place for practice/training. There are high schools around the country with better facilities than the Redskins have. That place is a dump.
Both previous times the Tribe reached the 1-AA (FCS) semis, in '04 and '09, they played on Friday night. Just from following those playoffs the last fifteen years or so, my impression is that the NCAA has the more easterly teams play on Friday night, while the semi involving Midwestern or Western teams (for example, North Dakota State) is played on Saturday afternoon.
If W&M is serious about hosting the VHSL title games, I would guess that they (W&M) are planning on playing any home FCS playoff game that might conflict with the VHSL games on Friday, regardless of the round.
I hope the Tribe can get back to the semis. As I stated earlier, I have to believe a big reason for the stadium renovation is to keep from losing further ground in recruiting wars to other in-state and CAA schools - primarily Richmond. Seems like W&M has been the second choice behind UR for several good players in recent years.
Yessir! We went to the Watermelon Festival in Carytown in August also. I think the Bacon Festival was a little earlier than September because of that bike race we had that really shut everything down. VCU was out 2 weeks for nothing really.. It was just a bunch of detours and road closures. The Cinco De Mayo festival on the Canal is another good one! Lots of food and good wines. The Bacon Festival was hands down the best though!!!
A lot of good points have been made. I agree with HR6 on the traffic part. 64 is hell trying to travel on on the weekends, especially coming out of Richmond.
You might want to reconsider. The following two comments were offered up by the same person, the one so knowledgeable about Williamsburg traffic:
"Reference W&M Stadium. If games are moved there, traffic and parking will be a nightmare, along with other facets of hosting a championship game, as compared to Liberty University. W&M is not suited to hold championship games. I wonder if the VHSLhas bothered to visit W&M for a site visit."
And later, revealing their qualifications:
"I have been to Williamsburg once in my life. I was returning to Gretna from Hampton area, andstopped in W'burg for to fill up gas tank."
Do I really need to say anything else?
In addition to going to college in Williamsburg for four years, I've probably made at least twenty other trips there. Not once did I ever encounter anything close to the nightmare that is I-81/I-77 on a Friday. In fact, I've never encountered any serious problems on 64 between C'ville and Williamsburg. There's a bypass around Richmond for a reason.
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I'm on both sides of the fence here. 64 east of Richmond can be a total nightmare. And usually for no apparent reason. A slowdown starts and just gets worse, and worse and works it way back upstream. And this problem is a guarantee on Saturday's during the "heading to, (or from), the Outer Banks" season. For the life of me, I just don't understand why Richmonders insist on fighting that nightmare. Taking 95 to 460 is usually faster, and certainly a much less frustrating drive.
But, there are several alternate routes to the Williamsburg area that are easy, and just more relaxing. Rt. 5 or Rt. 60 parallel 64. And Route 5 is an Historic Byway. Or take Rt 10 to Smithfield, then cross the James River via the James River Bridge. Or my favorite, take Rt. 10 to Surry, then turn off for a quick 10 mile drive to the James River Ferry. A beautiful 15 minute ride across the river to Jamestown, and you are a hop, skip, and a jump from Williamsburg.
And I can personally attest to, and recommend, about 10 terrific places to eat along any of these choices.
So hey, go ahead and throw Brer Rabbit in the briar patch! I dare you to move the games to Williamsburg.
Spartan, I grew up as a boy virtually living on the Surry side of the river. In the 4th grade, when my class took the obligatory field trip to Jamestown, I had probably been there 10-15 times. I have friends and customers on both sides of the river, and have been in and around the Williamsburg area my entire life. And on top of that, our daughter graduated from, and worked for, CNU for 10 years. (And believe it or not, I have never been to the "Grand Illumination". But, I'm going this year, God willing).
I'm all in, let's go to the house that Jimmy Laycock built!
But, there are several alternate routes to the Williamsburg area that are easy, and just more relaxing. Rt. 5 or Rt. 60 parallel 64. And Route 5 is an Historic Byway. Or take Rt 10 to Smithfield, then cross the James River via the James River Bridge. Or my favorite, take Rt. 10 to Surry, then turn off for a quick 10 mile drive to the James River Ferry. A beautiful 15 minute ride across the river to Jamestown, and you are a hop, skip, and a jump from Williamsburg.
And I can personally attest to, and recommend, about 10 terrific places to eat along any of these choices.
So hey, go ahead and throw Brer Rabbit in the briar patch! I dare you to move the games to Williamsburg.
Spartan, I grew up as a boy virtually living on the Surry side of the river. In the 4th grade, when my class took the obligatory field trip to Jamestown, I had probably been there 10-15 times. I have friends and customers on both sides of the river, and have been in and around the Williamsburg area my entire life. And on top of that, our daughter graduated from, and worked for, CNU for 10 years. (And believe it or not, I have never been to the "Grand Illumination". But, I'm going this year, God willing).
I'm all in, let's go to the house that Jimmy Laycock built!
I'm on both sides of the fence here. 64 east of Richmond can be a total nightmare. And usually for no apparent reason. A slowdown starts and just gets worse, and worse and works it way back upstream. And this problem is a guarantee on Saturday's during the "heading to, (or from), the Outer Banks" season. For the life of me, I just don't understand why Richmonders insist on fighting that nightmare. Taking 95 to 460 is usually faster, and certainly a much less frustrating drive.
But, there are several alternate routes to the Williamsburg area that are easy, and just more relaxing. Rt. 5 or Rt. 60 parallel 64. And Route 5 is an Historic Byway. Or take Rt 10 to Smithfield, then cross the James River via the James River Bridge. Or my favorite, take Rt. 10 to Surry, then turn off for a quick 10 mile drive to the James River Ferry. A beautiful 15 minute ride across the river to Jamestown, and you are a hop, skip, and a jump from Williamsburg.
And I can personally attest to, and recommend, about 10 terrific places to eat along any of these choices.
So hey, go ahead and throw Brer Rabbit in the briar patch! I dare you to move the games to Williamsburg.
Spartan, I grew up as a boy virtually living on the Surry side of the river. In the 4th grade, when my class took the obligatory field trip to Jamestown, I had probably been there 10-15 times. I have friends and customers on both sides of the river, and have been in and around the Williamsburg area my entire life. And on top of that, our daughter graduated from, and worked for, CNU for 10 years. (And believe it or not, I have never been to the "Grand Illumination". But, I'm going this year, God willing).
I'm all in, let's go to the house that Jimmy Laycock built!
Yes, I believe that there are definitely slowdowns, major accidents, etc. on 64 in the W'burg vicinity. I just personally have never encountered any. And though my sample size of driving in that area is not on the same level as yours, it is more frequently than.....once (see HR6's comment).
Route 5 is a beautiful way to go. I've only been on it a few times. At W&M, my best friend (who'd starred at Matoaca) and I decided one Friday to go see his Warriors play at hated (for him) L.C. Bird. IIRC, a good portion of our route to Bird was along Rte. 5. He drove.
I'm ashamed to admit that, despite spending four years in Williamsburg, I have never been to Jamestown in my life. Never been to the GI, either. While there in college, it was both a case of no time, and that seeming like a "touristy" activity. I admit now that I would like to see it.
Don't feel bad, I grew up in Petersburg and other than "The Crater", I only started going to the area attractions about 20 years ago. It's something about getting "long in the tooth" that makes you appreciate things a little differently.
I'm on both sides of the fence here. 64 east of Richmond can be a total nightmare. And usually for no apparent reason. A slowdown starts and just gets worse, and worse and works it way back upstream. And this problem is a guarantee on Saturday's during the "heading to, (or from), the Outer Banks" season. For the life of me, I just don't understand why Richmonders insist on fighting that nightmare. Taking 95 to 460 is usually faster, and certainly a much less frustrating drive.
But, there are several alternate routes to the Williamsburg area that are easy, and just more relaxing. Rt. 5 or Rt. 60 parallel 64. And Route 5 is an Historic Byway. Or take Rt 10 to Smithfield, then cross the James River via the James River Bridge. Or my favorite, take Rt. 10 to Surry, then turn off for a quick 10 mile drive to the James River Ferry. A beautiful 15 minute ride across the river to Jamestown, and you are a hop, skip, and a jump from Williamsburg.
And I can personally attest to, and recommend, about 10 terrific places to eat along any of these choices.
So hey, go ahead and throw Brer Rabbit in the briar patch! I dare you to move the games to Williamsburg.
Spartan, I grew up as a boy virtually living on the Surry side of the river. In the 4th grade, when my class took the obligatory field trip to Jamestown, I had probably been there 10-15 times. I have friends and customers on both sides of the river, and have been in and around the Williamsburg area my entire life. And on top of that, our daughter graduated from, and worked for, CNU for 10 years. (And believe it or not, I have never been to the "Grand Illumination". But, I'm going this year, God willing).
I'm all in, let's go to the house that Jimmy Laycock built!
60 is nice, also. At least it was in the eighties. I remember thinking that "Providence Forge" sounded like a place from a Stephen King novel.
I'm on both sides of the fence here. 64 east of Richmond can be a total nightmare. And usually for no apparent reason. A slowdown starts and just gets worse, and worse and works it way back upstream. And this problem is a guarantee on Saturday's during the "heading to, (or from), the Outer Banks" season. For the life of me, I just don't understand why Richmonders insist on fighting that nightmare. Taking 95 to 460 is usually faster, and certainly a much less frustrating drive.
But, there are several alternate routes to the Williamsburg area that are easy, and just more relaxing. Rt. 5 or Rt. 60 parallel 64. And Route 5 is an Historic Byway. Or take Rt 10 to Smithfield, then cross the James River via the James River Bridge. Or my favorite, take Rt. 10 to Surry, then turn off for a quick 10 mile drive to the James River Ferry. A beautiful 15 minute ride across the river to Jamestown, and you are a hop, skip, and a jump from Williamsburg.
And I can personally attest to, and recommend, about 10 terrific places to eat along any of these choices.
So hey, go ahead and throw Brer Rabbit in the briar patch! I dare you to move the games to Williamsburg.
Spartan, I grew up as a boy virtually living on the Surry side of the river. In the 4th grade, when my class took the obligatory field trip to Jamestown, I had probably been there 10-15 times. I have friends and customers on both sides of the river, and have been in and around the Williamsburg area my entire life. And on top of that, our daughter graduated from, and worked for, CNU for 10 years. (And believe it or not, I have never been to the "Grand Illumination". But, I'm going this year, God willing).
I'm all in, let's go to the house that Jimmy Laycock built!
The traffic on 64 really only gets bad east of Williamsburg so it shouldn't be a huge factor for people travelling from Richmond. Add in the fact that, as you've said, there are alternate routes and that shouldn't be a problem (If they move the D.5 and 6 games to Hampton U that's a different story). Parking can be messy but that's true of any college town. The thing is, once you're parked there's no reason to unpark until you're leaving. There are plenty of places to eat within easy walking distance.
Providence Forge is almost a place that time forgot. It does sound like a movie or book name, doesn't it?
Back to football, I don't think the attendance totals will change for games at W&M. A few fans from out west may not make the trip, but just as many more from tidewater will attend. It's a cinch that teams from the Richmond or tidewater areas will bring a lot of fans. I guess the northern teams will not see much difference in travel time, so I guess just as many fans will make the trip. I will admit that teams west of Roanoke will be faced with a pretty long trip.
But to tell you the truth, I think a team's "loyal" fans will travel for a state championship game, regardless. It's just a fact that some schools have a huge fan base, and others have an embarrassingly small following. (There are a lot of valid reasons reasons that explain this, but the facts remain the same).
I haven't pulled out my ole World Atlas from under the bed to check this fact, but my feeling is the move to Williamsburg has more of a chance to create hardships for western 3a schools than for 4a. Simply because of numbers of each group west of the Star City. You geography geniuses can support or disput this, if you will.
Back to football, I don't think the attendance totals will change for games at W&M. A few fans from out west may not make the trip, but just as many more from tidewater will attend. It's a cinch that teams from the Richmond or tidewater areas will bring a lot of fans. I guess the northern teams will not see much difference in travel time, so I guess just as many fans will make the trip. I will admit that teams west of Roanoke will be faced with a pretty long trip.
But to tell you the truth, I think a team's "loyal" fans will travel for a state championship game, regardless. It's just a fact that some schools have a huge fan base, and others have an embarrassingly small following. (There are a lot of valid reasons reasons that explain this, but the facts remain the same).
I haven't pulled out my ole World Atlas from under the bed to check this fact, but my feeling is the move to Williamsburg has more of a chance to create hardships for western 3a schools than for 4a. Simply because of numbers of each group west of the Star City. You geography geniuses can support or disput this, if you will.
I agree about the participating schools' fan bases providing the bulk of attendants. I don't think any one area of the state is going to provide a significantly greater number of "casual fans" than any other part. Population around the championship site is another factor; if there's a greater population within an hour's drive, you're likely to attract more casual fans.
Really though, the two primary factors will be how well the participating schools' fans travel; and, the weather on game day. If people can't drive, then everyone's screwed. And no one can control that.
As I said somewhere else, if Salem is playing in a football championship game, I'm gonna be there, regardless of location. Tee that sucker up in Chincoteague, for all I care. As long as the weather allows safe travel. Purely guessing, but if this move from LU to W&M happens, and IF Salem is lucky enough to be playing, I'd say that might decrease the number of Salem fans by as much as a third. Given the perfect weather of last year, I'd guess that 3,000 to 4,000 maroon-clad fans would trek to the Burg.
There are surprisingly few 3A schools west of Roanoke. You've got Christiansburg, Blacksburg, and the really out-there Abingdon. The Falcons have been pretty good of late, so they might actually be faced with such a journey. I doubt they would complain much. In 4A, only Pulaski County, Salem, and Carroll County are west of Roanoke.
Hahaha I see where he's coming from though. I live between Broad and Leigh in Richmond which is literally 2 blocks from the 95/64 interchange. I can look down Chamberlayne Ave and see the traffic back up on 95 going into 64. As DP pointed out, there are better ways of going to Williamsburg. I am a fan of Route 5 which takes you from Church Hill in RVA to the W&M campus. I'd advise anyone, going to the state championship or not, to ride through there one day. Very peaceful and you can do 55 mph all the way.
There are surprisingly few 3A schools west of Roanoke. You've got Christiansburg, Blacksburg, and the reallyout-there Abingdon. The Falcons have been pretty good of late, so they might actually be faced with such ajourney. I doubt they would complain much. In 4A, only Pulaski County, Salem, and Carroll County arewest ofRoanoke.
When you said you doubt they would complain much, it brought something else to mind. But first, I agree fully. I can't imagine any coach saying anything more than "I wish the game was closer for our fans".
The thought that came to mind was what I always harped on when we were discussing the 16 team playoff formats. Specifically 1,2, or 3 win teams being in the playoffs. I always said go find me a head football coach that wishes his team had not made the playoffs.
When you said you doubt they would complain much, it brought something else to mind. But first, I agree fully. I can't imagine any coach saying anything more than "I wish the game was closer for our fans".
The thought that came to mind was what I always harped on when we were discussing the 16 team playoff formats. Specifically 1,2, or 3 win teams being in the playoffs. I always said go find me a head football coach that wishes his team had not made the playoffs.
If the game were in Williamsburg as opposed to Lynchburg, a trip to the title game would be a lot less likely for me personally. Of course my personal situation is unusual and I think a good number of Spartans fans would still make the trip. Even though it could keep me from attending I do like the idea of rotating sites. Williamsburg is beautiful and you could make the title game a nice weekend getaway. I do believe traffic and parking could be more of an issue at W&M than LU. I attended my friend's daughter's graduation there 3 years ago and all of the county schools were graduating the same day at the basketball arena. Let's just say if they move the games, more planning should be done than what happened that day. I realize Liberty can be a pain, but it's much better than what I experienced at W&M 3 years ago. That's just my 2 cents.Personally I like the way things are. If Salem is playing I can make it to Lynchburg pretty easily. If Salem isn't playing I can go watch the 1/2A games. I realize though to be fair the sites should probably rotate. I think if you're going to rotate then all sites should be rotated to be fair.
First Mike, if Salem gets to Williamsburg, and you want to go, I'm sure your friends here on the forum will figure out a way to get you there. (Of course, if it's against Dinwiddie and the Spartans win, your butt can find your own way home!)
I'm like Spartan, I think traffic and other logistical concerns are greatly overstated. If they can handle home football crowds, high school championship games should be a cake walk.
I'm like Spartan, I think traffic and other logistical concerns are greatly overstated. If they can handle home football crowds, high school championship games should be a cake walk.
I'll have to bring my battery charger with me then. Approximately 180 miles with a maximum top speed of around 7 mph, it might take me a while to get home. I might could make it back by the time Dinwiddie comes to Salem next September.
Just to simplify. I totally endorse the idea of rotating venues. It's a good thing for all.
I came from NY and Washington DC. The perspective on parking and traffic in the suggested venues (and I have been to them all) is completely devoid of creedence. To me, these are wide open spaces. Easily maneuvered when you know how to drive. A gift from God. IMO.
I came from NY and Washington DC. The perspective on parking and traffic in the suggested venues (and I have been to them all) is completely devoid of creedence. To me, these are wide open spaces. Easily maneuvered when you know how to drive. A gift from God. IMO.
For those who suggest the Redskins' facility, I don't think it's suitable. Here's a Google Earth picture. There are no stands.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...ata=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x6f608589a6c22ce4
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...ata=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x6f608589a6c22ce4
I'm curious when the last mass shooting was at Liberty University vs. the last mass shooting in Richmond.
Oh.....wait.......
Obviously everybody wants to have championship games that aren't too far off from them. To say otherwise would be a little dishonest. Yes, traveling to new venues can be fun and exciting, but most of us from the western side of the state would just as soon not have to fight our way through the chaos that is Richmond/Norfolk/DC area traffic.
Liberty University was picked, as far as I understand it, because it was about as close to the center of the state as you could get for Group 4A and 5A teams. Heaven forbid the teams in and around NOVA have to meet halfway for a title game.
Of course we could also attempt to apply some common sense to it (I know, I know.....not something you see very often) and when that time comes take a look at the two teams playing and find a suitable location halfway between those two teams and let them play at a good neutral location. Sure I like being able to see two games, but I'd rather see the two teams playing have a shot at having a great crowd and atmosphere.
Oh.....wait.......
Obviously everybody wants to have championship games that aren't too far off from them. To say otherwise would be a little dishonest. Yes, traveling to new venues can be fun and exciting, but most of us from the western side of the state would just as soon not have to fight our way through the chaos that is Richmond/Norfolk/DC area traffic.
Liberty University was picked, as far as I understand it, because it was about as close to the center of the state as you could get for Group 4A and 5A teams. Heaven forbid the teams in and around NOVA have to meet halfway for a title game.
Of course we could also attempt to apply some common sense to it (I know, I know.....not something you see very often) and when that time comes take a look at the two teams playing and find a suitable location halfway between those two teams and let them play at a good neutral location. Sure I like being able to see two games, but I'd rather see the two teams playing have a shot at having a great crowd and atmosphere.
Good post Cougar Dave.
If one were to ask VHSL Headquarters what Common Sense is, they would not get an answer. There are teams in certain areas of the state that hate to travel over 10 miles to any athletic event.
Travel doesn't bother me. I like the ole saying: Play anybody-anywhere. But when it comes to state championship games, Liberty University is best venue, all things considered. There is no better venue in state.
If one were to ask VHSL Headquarters what Common Sense is, they would not get an answer. There are teams in certain areas of the state that hate to travel over 10 miles to any athletic event.
Travel doesn't bother me. I like the ole saying: Play anybody-anywhere. But when it comes to state championship games, Liberty University is best venue, all things considered. There is no better venue in state.
I've been to there practice facilities. They have a field not far from the stadium that has a suitable amount of stands.
OK. I did not know that.
I'm not saying that they should change the site. Actually, LU seems to be a perfectly fine place for the D.3/4 games. I also don't care if they rotate sites or not. A lot of states have a fixed site.
This Danville native has no issue with parking to see the Redskins or GW play at the Siegal Center. You just have to be willing to walk. There is parking on side streets around 1800 W Broad.
Plenty of parking on side streets on other side of Monument. If you go see the Redskins, take water and Gatorade in. The Mickey D's on Broad is a decent place to cool off afterwards. The redskins camp is not and there is no shade except for the store tent.
Plenty of parking on side streets on other side of Monument. If you go see the Redskins, take water and Gatorade in. The Mickey D's on Broad is a decent place to cool off afterwards. The redskins camp is not and there is no shade except for the store tent.
ODU. UVA. JMU. All are better.
But the bottom line here is, LU and LCA forced the VHSL to accept them into their ranks. The VHSL didn't like it. Now that the contract has expired, the VHSL will stick em' and move everything they can from LU. Good for the VHSL and screw "JerryLand". You'll never see another VHSL event at LU. Karma's a bitch.
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I doubt Liberty loses any sleep over the VHSL's decision to move their game lol...Reguardless of how you feel about Liberty, it's one of the finest institutions in America and they stand by their values.
I would like to go on a tour of all possible venues within the state with all the naysayers, and list pros and cons of each venue. LU would win hands down. Areas to be graded are: parking, highways/traffic/streets into site, concessions, Hotels, eating places near-by, crime rate, and facility.
True DanvilleSportsHead. LU is a lot nicer university than JMU, ODU, VCU or UVA. I have been to events at all of them. LU wins easily.
I agree! Beautiful campus! Even better facilities and more importantly, they present structure that most of us young adults need. I wouldn't give anything for my time at VCU, I love my school to the death of me, and I'm very prideful of it, but if someone was to tell me that I had to pick another university to attend in VA, I'd definitely pick LU hands down. Networking, structure, values, it's a win win.
That bike race was a hot mess. Haven't heard about the Cinco De Mayo fest. Daughter is in middle of finals right now, so I guess she doesn't know about it yet either. We went to the Bluegrass Jam last month, rotten weather, but great music! Maybe we can meet up sometime!
