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COACHING CRITICISMS

colonel 72

VaPreps Rookie
Aug 30, 2010
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Is it just me or do Gretna fans just trash their coaches more than most schools? I think other posters have noticed this from time to time. I started reading these boards when Chris Thurman was at Gretna. He won two states, had a great won lost record and got vilified on the boards. Even brought in his personal life into the conversation.
Then along comes Kevin Saunders and he goes to two state finals, wins one and has 5 winning seasons but he is vilified. The talent and numbers bottomed out and that is what the current coach inherited. I believe Gretna had an 8-2 record last year and are 7-2 so far this year and yep, you guessed it the coach is getting crucified. HMNNN. Is their a pattern here?
 
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I recall a guy wanting to fire entire staff in 2004 because we only beat Nelson County 39-0.

Like a former Seminole District coach once said, you can go undefeated and win state championship, yet some will not be happy, bringing pressure from community.
 
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I recall a guy wanting to fire entire staff in 2004 because we only beat Nelson County 39-0.

Like a former Seminole District coach once said, you can go undefeated and win state championship, yet some will not be happy, bringing pressure from community.
Good post HR.
 
Good post HR.
How much does a football coach make in Pittsylvania County? How many hours does the average coach put in? Just the average ones. Practice, clean up after games, film, game plan, weight lifting, off season conditioning, 7 on 7. Media work. Fund raising. By the way they also teach and have a life outside of football.
 
Lol. No community member/school board/admin really wants to know that answer to that question as the times would be mind boggling to say the least. Literally a 2nd fulltime job on top of teaching etc. That is a fact for a couple K in stipend.
I have many friends in the coaching ranks and it’s not about the money to any of them. Many would leave the teaching profession if not for the love of coaching and helping kids.
The criticism giving out by people baffles me each and every week. Especially in programs that are “spoiled in winning”. Funny how that works.
 
Lol. No community member/school board/admin really wants to know that answer to that question as the times would be mind boggling to say the least. Literally a 2nd fulltime job on top of teaching etc. That is a fact for a couple K in stipend.
I have many friends in the coaching ranks and it’s not about the money to any of them. Many would leave the teaching profession if not for the love of coaching and helping kids.
The criticism giving out by people baffles me each and every week. Especially in programs that are “spoiled in winning”. Funny how that works.

I have only seen 2 or 3 coaches, who actually were coaching for the money. but either was football coach.
 
All are very underpaid.

Also, a coach can lead team to state title game (15 games = 5 extra weeks), and makes identical to what a coach made coaching 10 game schedule. They do not earn a penny for those extra 5 weeks.

AND be forced to pay for their state championship ring after those 5 extra weeks.
 
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We had the same issue at Riverheads a few years back but it was our basketball coach and I think I finally figured out that it was just one parent who caused all the commotion. But the coach won the district tournament 7 out of 8 years running, also won 2 or 3 regular season titles in there, and took us to the state finals one year, yet this parent got on here and called him every name in the book, said he didn't know what he was doing, a monkey could coach the team better, etc.

I think it was mainly because this parent did not like a slower-paced brand of basketball and did not agree with that coach's commitment to defense. Both have moved on now, so I have no idea if either one is reading this but I am sure they both remember it well.
 
All are very underpaid.

Also, a coach can lead team to state title game (15 games = 5 extra weeks), and makes identical to what a coach made coaching 10 game schedule. They do not earn a penny for those extra 5 weeks.
Correct. Ridiculous. I have heard that George Mason gives a per diem for everyday their coaches are in post season. No idea how much that is but what a great thought/policy if that’s actually the case.
 
Is it just me or do Gretna fans just trash their coaches more than most schools? I think other posters have noticed this from time to time. I started reading these boards when Chris Thurman was at Gretna. He won two states, had a great won lost record and got vilified on the boards. Even brought in his personal life into the conversation.
Then along comes Kevin Saunders and he goes to two state finals, wins one and has 5 winning seasons but he is vilified. The talent and numbers bottomed out and that is what the current coach inherited. I believe Gretna had an 8-2 record last year and are 7-2 so far this year and yep, you guessed it the coach is getting crucified. HMNNN. Is their a pattern here?
You obviously do not follow Gate City football. The first loss or win by a small margin or not win the state and the coach is crucified.
 
All are very underpaid.

Also, a coach can lead team to state title game (15 games = 5 extra weeks), and makes identical to what a coach made coaching 10 game schedule. They do not earn a penny for those extra 5 weeks.

Some school systems do pay a per diem for extra days (making playoffs).
 
GW maroons coach is something like 44-16 and people absolutely bash the guy!! Two of the four seasons he’s been coach they have advanced to the semifinals...keep in mind all of the first 3 seasons prior to this one have obviously ended in a loss, as does everyone’s season except for the state champions for each year. If you take that into account he has been very productive as a leader of young athletes!! Can’t imagine how good his teams record would be if the community would embrace him.
 
Correct. Ridiculous. I have heard that George Mason gives a per diem for everyday their coaches are in post season. No idea how much that is but what a great thought/policy if that’s actually the case.
Mason isn't exactly going out on a limb with their funds on this one. LOL But seriously, that's a good idea.
 
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I’m glad colonel72 has nothing better to do each week than come on a trash Gretna for some reason. One week it’s the radio station, now the fans. Glad everything’s just great across the river in Atown.
 
Didn't know Atown still had football team. Thought that's why he jumped on Gretna.
You two have been two of the biggest bashers of Gretna football probably in history. I do apologize for the one negative comment about the radio broadcast. They do the best they can do I must assume. But one thing. Who says I am an Altavista fan. Colonel72 could be William Fleming or even Kentucky Fried Chicken. LOL.
 
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Sometimes a community or fan base doesn't like a coach because of his personality and/or demeanor outside the school. Won-Lost record is 2nd.
 
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LOL I’ve been a big basher? I never liked Saunders because he took a personal shot at me by confronting my wife in a public setting. I absolutely loved Thurman and wish he was still coaching at Gretna. And I’ve never said anything about the current coach. I’ve travelled the state watching and supporting Gretna. But thanks for your insight since you know all things Gretna
 
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You two have been two of the biggest bashers of Gretna football probably in history. I do apologize for the one negative comment about the radio broadcast. They do the best they can do I must assume. But one thing. Who says I am an Altavista fan. Colonel72 could be William Fleming or even Kentucky Fried Chicken. LOL.
One more thing and I will let this go. To the people who just scream and yell out things in public, have you even thought that these coaches families may be sitting in those stands and have to listen to this stuff. Wives, parents,grandparents and maybe even young kids hear their dad being called an idiot because he dared to call a play that might be ok in a particular situation. Have you thought about that. What about the players on the sidelines who hear this stuff? How does it help their morale and thus the morale of the team. Does any of this really help? As far as Altavista goes, I remember one game in which Gretna was beating Altavista in A Town. Mike Scharnus was the new coach and Kevin Saunders Gretna team was beating him. The Altavista fans and one in particular were giving Mike Scharnus a really tough time. They were crucifying him because he didn't have a clue. Three state championships later he is a genius and a coaching legend in Altavista.
 
LOL I’ve been a big basher? I never liked Saunders because he took a personal shot at me by confronting my wife in a public setting. I absolutely loved Thurman and wish he was still coaching at Gretna. And I’ve never said anything about the current coach. I’ve travelled the state watching and supporting Gretna. But thanks for your insight since you know all things Gretna
I dont know all things about anything and if I offended you I do apologize. Just trying to get some sanity in the stands and on these forums. As they say, let players play, coaches coach and officials officiate. Again I did not mean to offend.
 
I once said to myself after another run up middle for no gain, "throw the ball". The QB's grandmother heard me, and reported me to the principal. True story
 
I once said to myself after another run up middle for no gain, "throw the ball". The QB's grandmother heard me, and reported me to the principal. True story


Never go to a Wise Central boys basketball game. You'd be arrested and/or assaulted if you dared question the coach.
 
I once said to myself after another run up middle foot footballr no gain, "throw the ball". The QB's grandmother heard me, and reported me to the principal. True story
She should report you as you don't really understand the game of football by some of your off the field comments.......
 
She should report you as you don't really understand the game of football by some of your off the field comments.......

I don't get that vibe. He def. likes offensive air it out football, but that can absolutely work with the right personnel
 
Only takes a few idiots to force good men out and ruin a good program. Interesting that parent's fangs come out more often against good or once great programs than bad...and most of the great coaches I know say they are damned if they did anything different on the successful years versus the down years. The responsibility for failure is never put on the shoulders of where it really belongs...on the kids themselves.
 
Only takes a few idiots to force good men out and ruin a good program. Interesting that parent's fangs come out more often against good or once great programs than bad...and most of the great coaches I know say they are damned if they did anything different on the successful years versus the down years. The responsibility for failure is never put on the shoulders of where it really belongs...on the kids themselves.

So we are blaming 14-18 year old kids? C'mon man, I don't believe that.
 
I don’t think there is anything worse then a parent bashing a coach in front of their kid, (far as coaching is concerned) really hard for a kid respect a coach if all they hear is negative comments about them from their parents, I had two kids come up through high school very few coaches I thought were not good but I never said anything in front of them
We had the same issue at Riverheads a few years back but it was our basketball coach and I think I finally figured out that it was just one parent who caused all the commotion. But the coach won the district tournament 7 out of 8 years running, also won 2 or 3 regular season titles in there, and took us to the state finals one year, yet this parent got on here and called him every name in the book, said he didn't know what he was doing, a monkey could coach the team better, etc.

I think it was mainly because this parent did not like a slower-paced brand of basketball and did not agree with that coach's commitment to defense. Both have moved on now, so I have no idea if either one is reading this but I am sure they both remember it well.
yea he did win but he had players that all they did was play basketball year round and that was before you were allowed to coach them year round. I remember a game where we played buffalo Gap in playoffs if we win we get to go play Madison number 1 team in 2a he pulls up Jv kids puts them in 2nd quarter score was 24-22 Riverheads at half 40 - 26 gap scored 2 points and then said how well they played in paper didn’t want to win that game haven’t thought the same of him since
 
The responsibility for failure is never put on the shoulders of where it really belongs...on the kids themselves.
Incorrect. There is no failure that belongs on the shoulders of the kids. Do teachers tell kids who get a D in Math 'that's your fault' or do they try to teach them a better way to understand? Doing something the same way for 15 years doesn't necessarily make it the right way. Coaches need to constantly learn, adapt, and apply (as teachers do). John Wooden never called himself a Coach. He called himself a Teacher.
 
I don’t think there is anything worse then a parent bashing a coach in front of their kid, (far as coaching is concerned) really hard for a kid respect a coach if all they hear is negative comments about them from their parents, I had two kids come up through high school very few coaches I thought were not good but I never said anything in front of them

yea he did win but he had players that all they did was play basketball year round and that was before you were allowed to coach them year round. I remember a game where we played buffalo Gap in playoffs if we win we get to go play Madison number 1 team in 2a he pulls up Jv kids puts them in 2nd quarter score was 24-22 Riverheads at half 40 - 26 gap scored 2 points and then said how well they played in paper didn’t want to win that game haven’t thought the same of him since
I'm not sure I understand what happened here.
 
Incorrect. There is no failure that belongs on the shoulders of the kids. Do teachers tell kids who get a D in Math 'that's your fault' or do they try to teach them a better way to understand? Doing something the same way for 15 years doesn't necessarily make it the right way. Coaches need to constantly learn, adapt, and apply (as teachers do). John Wooden never called himself a Coach. He called himself a Teacher.

I don't disagree with you but we have now become a society of parents/communities that do not like to place blame on ourselves or our kids. I have never seen a coach make a pass/catch a pass/hit a ball/make a shot etc. Players do those things but coaches for the most part take the high road and place blame on themselves so the kids don't have to. However, it's ok for kids to fail and know they failed. That's life and part of growing up. It's not warm and fuzzy out here in the "real game of life". I grew up at a time that if I badmouthed my coach, I better have my head on a swivel b/c my dad was coming in to make sure I never said it again. Or my mom was chucking something at me from across the room. Nor did my parents or friends critique every move the coaches made. I'm pretty sure most of us were raised that way for the most part......For some reason these days it's much easier to place blame on the coach/teacher/administrator for our own kids shortcomings and/or mistakes. Without starting a brand new thread, I do believe a lot of this began with the start of travel sports in regards to how high school coaches etc. begin to get treated.
I firmly believe that coaches need to adapt to their talent and teams yearly as the dynamic of each changes with new kids coming and going with each year. The excellent ones can and will do that. However, It's harder to coach now than it has ever been before for all coaches and here is just a couple reasons:

1-practices can be year round other than the VHSL dead periods (if coaches don't do this they are considered lazy etc but there is no extra pay for coaches)(absolutely draining coaches as they have families/commitments as well)
2-kids specializing in 1 sport due to travel (this is getting worse each year and not good for smaller schools)
3-parents feel travel is more important than the high school sport in some cases in which the student begins to feel the same way (i.e. my travel team or my travel coach.....)
4-social media (for example what are we doing right now...)
5-kids have so much more to do now than ever before outside of athletics. Wasn't like this when most of us grew up
6-and last but not least....Coaches/Teachers aren't looked at or thought of with the same "luster" as they once were for whatever reasons. Yes, I know some are way better than others etc. I know this but I'm talking overall

Lastly and then I will bow out of the conversation but kids haven't changed in my opinion over the past 20 years or so. Parents have and I can say that as I'm a parent and I have to catch myself constantly so I don't act like many others. Kids want to be coached/directed/taught just like they have forever. It's how they are handled outside the boundaries of school/sports that has changed.
Good luck to all tomorrow if their games are getting moved up and/or Friday night.
 
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I don't disagree with you but we have now become a society of parents/communities that do not like to place blame on ourselves or our kids. I have never seen a coach make a pass/catch a pass/hit a ball/make a shot etc. Players do those things but coaches for the most part take the high road and place blame on themselves so the kids don't have to. However, it's ok for kids to fail and know they failed. That's life and part of growing up. It's not warm and fuzzy out here in the "real game of life". I grew up at a time that if I badmouthed my coach, I better have my head on a swivel b/c my dad was coming in to make sure I never said it again. Or my mom was chucking something at me from across the room. Nor did my parents or friends critique every move the coaches made. I'm pretty sure most of us were raised that way for the most part......For some reason these days it's much easier to place blame on the coach/teacher/administrator for our own kids shortcomings and/or mistakes. Without starting a brand new thread, I do believe a lot of this began with the start of travel sports in regards to how high school coaches etc. begin to get treated.
I firmly believe that coaches need to adapt to their talent and teams yearly as the dynamic of each changes with new kids coming and going with each year. The excellent ones can and will do that. However, It's harder to coach now than it has ever been before for all coaches and here is just a couple reasons:

1-practices can be year round other than the VHSL dead periods (if coaches don't do this they are considered lazy etc but there is no extra pay for coaches)(absolutely draining coaches as they have families/commitments as well)
2-kids specializing in 1 sport due to travel (this is getting worse each year and not good for smaller schools)
3-parents feel travel is more important than the high school sport in some cases in which the student begins to feel the same way (i.e. my travel team or my travel coach.....)
4-social media (for example what are we doing right now...)
5-kids have so much more to do now than ever before outside of athletics. Wasn't like this when most of us grew up
6-and last but not least....Coaches/Teachers aren't looked at or thought of with the same "luster" as they once were for whatever reasons. Yes, I know some are way better than others etc. I know this but I'm talking overall

Lastly and then I will bow out of the conversation but kids haven't changed in my opinion over the past 20 years or so. Parents have and I can say that as I'm a parent and I have to catch myself constantly so I don't act like many others. Kids want to be coached/directed/taught just like they have forever. It's how they are handled outside the boundaries of school/sports that has changed.
Good luck to all tomorrow if their games are getting moved up and/or Friday night.
I agree with this. Well thought out and articulated post.
 
Is it just me or do Gretna fans just trash their coaches more than most schools? I think other posters have noticed this from time to time. I started reading these boards when Chris Thurman was at Gretna. He won two states, had a great won lost record and got vilified on the boards. Even brought in his personal life into the conversation.
Then along comes Kevin Saunders and he goes to two state finals, wins one and has 5 winning seasons but he is vilified. The talent and numbers bottomed out and that is what the current coach inherited. I believe Gretna had an 8-2 record last year and are 7-2 so far this year and yep, you guessed it the coach is getting crucified. HMNNN. Is their a pattern here?
Winning isn’t everything, being a role model and teaching these boys life lessons is more important. I still use the lessons that coaches taught us when we played. Maybe winning is all you care about but I would rather have a Slick Andrews coaching than anyone you named that won a title.....I don’t have a problem with current coach and have never trashed him.....the others got what they deserved...
 
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